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Thread: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

  1. #81
    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    As to the arguments, I have to agree with Billy, and there is more. We really don't need a GA deal with most of the decisions that are submitted to it. Most can be dealt with at a lower level, and do we really have to change some article of faith every 4 years? I like the idea of a confession of faith not being static and needing a fresh expression in each new age, but this frequent?
    And as far as I can see, the rest of the resolutions can be dealt with by either the General Board, a national board or the districts themselves.

    So my suggestion is to have amendments to the AoF automatically referred to a committee, to be appointed by the BoGS. They report to the General Board, and if the GB adopts the change, it would require 75% majority among all the districts. Change should remain possible, but not be easy.

    When it comes to element of meeting, the M conferences and regional conferences seem fulfil that role quite well.

    So although I love meeting people at a GA (and I really do!), I do not think that it is good stewardship to spend so much money on it. Nor do I see a need when it comes to the process of decision making. It may have worked in the early days of the church, but it's gotten out of hand.
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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    If 'we' is several thousand people in a denomination approaching 2 million, then plenty of 'us' have never been to a GA and never will. I'm blown away by this line of reasoning; "if we can't get together every four years to overeat and talk shop for 10 straight days, then why bother having a denomination." Really??
    I can imagine what it would look like in 1 Kings - "Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the LORD. But Billy Cox and members of the congregation said, 'all this is just an excuse for overeating and talking shop and a waste of good sheep and goats. It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.'" (note the smooth transition into Mark 14).
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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    I can imagine what it would look like in 1 Kings - "Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the LORD. But Billy Cox and members of the congregation said, 'all this is just an excuse for overeating and talking shop and a waste of good sheep and goats. It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.'" (note the smooth transition into Mark 14).
    Mark 14:7 "The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me."

    Don't want to be obnoxious, Scott. But we've had resolutions calling for less frequent GA's for several GA's now, and their motivation was mainly financial. In the current crisis, I would be surprised if 2013 won't see at least some change. And to be honest, I hope (and will vote) for more than "some" change.
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    Senior Member Rich Schmidt's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    I can imagine what it would look like in 1 Kings - "Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the LORD. But Billy Cox and members of the congregation said, 'all this is just an excuse for overeating and talking shop and a waste of good sheep and goats. It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.'" (note the smooth transition into Mark 14).
    As I was reading, I thought you were going to pick up on Billy's comment about the vast majority of Nazarenes never getting to a General Assembly, compared to "all the Israelites" who were there for the temple's dedication.

    Of course, now that I'm reading the rest of 1 Kings 8, I'm seeing that it almost certainly wasn't "all the Israelites" but more like all the elders and leaders of the tribes. So never mind.
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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Schmidt View Post
    As I was reading, I thought you were going to pick up on Billy's comment about the vast majority of Nazarenes never getting to a General Assembly, compared to "all the Israelites" who were there for the temple's dedication.

    Of course, now that I'm reading the rest of 1 Kings 8, I'm seeing that it almost certainly wasn't "all the Israelites" but more like all the elders and leaders of the tribes. So never mind.
    Mostly just pointing out that extravagance isn't always bad - and that some people will complain no matter what you do.
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    Senior Member Rich Schmidt's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    Mostly just pointing out that extravagance isn't always bad - and that some people will complain no matter what you do.
    You're correct on both counts. Mark 14, expensive perfume, etc. However, that (and the temple dedication) were kind of one-time deals. I wonder if Jesus might have reacted differently if people had been pouring out expensive perfume on him once a week... or once a month... or every four years...?
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    Site Manager G R 'Scott' Cundiff's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Schmidt View Post
    You're correct on both counts. Mark 14, expensive perfume, etc. However, that (and the temple dedication) were kind of one-time deals. I wonder if Jesus might have reacted differently if people had been pouring out expensive perfume on him once a week... or once a month... or every four years...?
    I was thinking that Israel had 7 big feasts a year?

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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    I was thinking that Israel had 7 big feasts a year?
    Yes. Would need to see the economics of that before we can compare, though. And these were by order of God, in order to celebrate His deeds in the past and His current blessings. With all due respect, what we have is not quite the same.

    You've never heard me complain about the M-conferences. If people want to get together for celebration and encouragement and pay their own way, that's fine with me. I've been know to fly quite a bit to attend conferences.

    Just don't let us come for business' sake at great expense for the church.
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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Deventer View Post
    Yes. Would need to see the economics of that before we can compare, though. And these were by order of God, in order to celebrate His deeds in the past and His current blessings. With all due respect, what we have is not quite the same.
    So...we aren't to celebrate the Lord's past deeds and current blessings unless he directly orders us to do so? Come to think of it, there are plenty of Psalms that do exactly that.

    Listen, all I'm saying is that there's more going on at GA than the business. Also, no matter what you do, there will be people taking pot shots, finding things to complain about, thinking they know better. Sometimes that comes from an honest spirit of disagreement. Other times it comes from the same people who complain about anything the denomination does. I think there are even times that it comes from some who would be perfectly happy with it all if only someone put them in charge of it.

    The people of God have a history of celebrating. The biggest component of GA is an element of celebration and fellowship.

    It reminds me of a couple going out to celebrate their wedding anniversary. They could sit there all evening talking about how the cost of the meal could have been better spent on new shoes for Johnny or even how it could have been given to the poor. They could complain about the service, the quality of the food, or even the people at the next table. Or - they can spend the time enjoying one another's company and celebrating what God has done in their lives. Giving the money to the poor might sound real deep and spiritual - but so does celebrating one another.

    Does that mean the frequency of GA can't be changed? Of course not. Does that mean I'm pretending that the Lord mandated it? Of course not. Does that mean I think it's perfect? No.

    It does mean though, that those who only want to talk about the cost or about other, less that perfect aspects of it, are being killjoys who need to spend some time with the ancient Israelites at the dedication of the Temple or, in this case with a big gathering of God's people having a wonderful time celebrating all he is doing throughout our diverse denomination.

    If nothing else, they need to stop trying to ruin it for those who, like David P in this thread, says it's fun and he looks forward it.

    Me too.

  10. #90
    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Well, I find it hard to believe that you are "blown away". My point is simple - there are a lot bigger and probably way more efficient denominations and non-denominations. One of the reasons I choose to give my life to the Church of the Nazarene is the great sense of community. General Assembly enhances that in a way no other convention, conference, or campmeeting does - not even the "M" conferences which are North American specific. Are there ways to do GA more efficiently? Sure. Does it mean there's no value in it? I'm not sure how someone who admittedly has never attended one can judge that. By the way - I have lost weight at every GA I've attended. There's a whole lot of walking and little time for overeating.

    I simply cannot reduce the Christian mission to some single-cell organism/multi-level marketing existence, in which your only purpose as a disciple is to reproduce yourself in the most efficient way possible, creating other self-replicating cells to increase the size of the Borg collective. I think I've mixed enough metaphors in this paragraph to make my point. I love being a follower of Jesus through the Church of the Nazarene, and I think we ought to be able to spend money on having a good time. I don't think I have to wait till I get to heaven to be happy.

    The argument could easily be made that music has no kingdom value, and time spent in practice, lessons, degrees, and creative energy is a drain on resources. Most non-Christians really don't enjoy singing in groups at all, unless it's followed by "Play Ball!" I sure wouldn't want to be a part of a non-musical church, though.

    As to how "bogus" my economic argument is - come on, Billy. You're smarter than that. Obviously pumping money into the local economy is not the goal of GA. But your gripe was the fact that money was spent. I was stating that I see this as somewhat of a benefit, rather than negative. I guess we could all just stop eating out year round and send all the money we save to starving kids. But most likely, you're going to be spending money on yourself in some fashion the last two weeks of June, 2013, whether it's in Indianapolis or KC. We could probably all stop taking vacations, too, until there are no lost in the world. But, instead of cruising to the Bahamas next summer, I'll probably give Indy those travel dollars.

    So which is it? Is the General Assembly a 2-bit small potatoes convention being catered to by a third rate visitor's bureau, or a behemoth empire wasting millions of dollars to simply throw their weight around? These seem mutually exclusive to me, but you seem to be making both cases in this thread.

    Hey, here's a thought. If you think General Assembly is stupid, don't come. Honesty, based on your years of naznet posts, I'm not sure why you bother with the Nazarene church at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    If 'we' is several thousand people in a denomination approaching 2 million, then plenty of 'us' have never been to a GA and never will. I'm blown away by this line of reasoning; "if we can't get together every four years to overeat and talk shop for 10 straight days, then why bother having a denomination." Really??

    But I have to congratulate you on being a regular part of the Nazarene version of the 1 percent.



    David, do you realize how bogus an argument that is? The aim of the GA is not to generate economic activity for a deserving Midwestern city.



    Great. I bet they don't need a big religious convention to justify their existence.



    It's not about motives, it's about stewardship. If the GA delivered a missional return on investment, you can bet that the denomination would find a way to do GA every year.
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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    So...we aren't to celebrate the Lord's past deeds and current blessings unless he directly orders us to do so? Come to think of it, there are plenty of Psalms that do exactly that.
    Oh man.....

    As I wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Deventer View Post
    You've never heard me complain about the M-conferences. If people want to get together for celebration and encouragement and pay their own way, that's fine with me. I've been know to fly quite a bit to attend conferences.

    Just don't let us come for business' sake at great expense for the church.
    And that is my point.

    Of course there is more than the business. And of course, the delegates' main goal is business. We don't really think the districts elect people to the GA, and pay their way, in order to celebrate God's blessings, do we?

    My only problem is that getting 1000 people together to do business simply doesn't work and costs way too much money anyway. So my view is we need to do business differently.

    For those who want to celebrate, as far as I'm concerned, do it at every level you please: local, zone, district, region, nation, global, whatever. My goal is not to kill anybody's joy. I would suggest we celebrate not just in Southern gospel style though, if we want to be inclusive. But that is another discussion.
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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Hey, here's a thought. If you think General Assembly is stupid, don't come.
    David, I'm coming because of the specific hope that this GA will decide on massive change. And that is what I want to be a part of. Otherwise, I would not have put myself up as candidate anymore.
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    Site Manager G R 'Scott' Cundiff's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Deventer View Post
    I would suggest we celebrate not just in Southern gospel style though, if we want to be inclusive. But that is another discussion.
    I was at the last Southern Gospel focus at a Nazarene GA - the Speer Family's last GA appearance - they left the road in 1992 due to illness. They had been featured at GA's for decades, but even that final concert was a "pre-service" one and not part of the main service. Since, there has been southern gospel sung in the exhibition hall concert area, but there hasn't been any southern gospel at all in the services.

    Anyway, I actually do think that the primary purpose of the 1000 delegates is celebration and worship. In fact, if they only come to transact business I think they'll go home frustrated by all the celebration and worship and fellowship and other non-business focus of the tens of thousands of people who paid their own way to attend just for that purpose.
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    Senior Member David Morris's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Scott View Post
    I don't think this is true. A bigger city might not make us the only show in town like Indy does, which is nice - but $44m (the estimated economic impact the last time we were in Indy) is nothing any CVB would sneeze at - even in New York or Vegas.
    $23 of that $44,000 000 was generated from people leaving tips at restaurants.

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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morris View Post
    $23 of that $44,000 000 was generated from people leaving tips at restaurants.
    And that was just Jerry Porter.
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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    And that was just Jerry Porter.
    Well, he's more generous than that. I'll PM you.
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    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Well, I find it hard to believe that you are "blown away". My point is simple - there are a lot bigger and probably way more efficient denominations and non-denominations. One of the reasons I choose to give my life to the Church of the Nazarene is the great sense of community. General Assembly enhances that in a way no other convention, conference, or campmeeting does - not even the "M" conferences which are North American specific. Are there ways to do GA more efficiently? Sure. Does it mean there's no value in it? I'm not sure how someone who admittedly has never attended one can judge that. By the way - I have lost weight at every GA I've attended. There's a whole lot of walking and little time for overeating.
    I'll respond to each paragraph, hoping not to be argumentative, but to acknowledge what you're saying in a Proverbs 15:1 way.

    I didn't say that GA has no value, just that I find the boasting about how big and important GA is to be nauseating - and that didn't come from you David, so you shouldn't feel compelled to defend it. And yes, I have attended a GA, and even in the 'company man' chapter of my life, I found some of the extravagance quite unsettling.

    I acknowledge that there is a sense of community to be had...for those whose universe orbits the Church of the Nazarene; but I think that one doesn't have to be a cynic to point out that this community is a smaller, more rarefied slice of the church. The idea that we all get together every four years is less true with each new GA.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    I simply cannot reduce the Christian mission to some single-cell organism/multi-level marketing existence, in which your only purpose as a disciple is to reproduce yourself in the most efficient way possible, creating other self-replicating cells to increase the size of the Borg collective. I think I've mixed enough metaphors in this paragraph to make my point. I love being a follower of Jesus through the Church of the Nazarene, and I think we ought to be able to spend money on having a good time. I don't think I have to wait till I get to heaven to be happy.
    I give the denomination credit for trying to do GA on the cheap, but their success at doing so is quite mixed. As a result the missional return on investment is doubtful.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    The argument could easily be made that music has no kingdom value, and time spent in practice, lessons, degrees, and creative energy is a drain on resources. Most non-Christians really don't enjoy singing in groups at all, unless it's followed by "Play Ball!" I sure wouldn't want to be a part of a non-musical church, though.
    If there was no missional return on music, it would not be so universally practiced in churches. Despite that, some churches probably shouldn't do music because their lack of love has made music a point of division.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    As to how "bogus" my economic argument is - come on, Billy. You're smarter than that. Obviously pumping money into the local economy is not the goal of GA. But your gripe was the fact that money was spent. I was stating that I see this as somewhat of a benefit, rather than negative. I guess we could all just stop eating out year round and send all the money we save to starving kids. But most likely, you're going to be spending money on yourself in some fashion the last two weeks of June, 2013, whether it's in Indianapolis or KC. We could probably all stop taking vacations, too, until there are no lost in the world. But, instead of cruising to the Bahamas next summer, I'll probably give Indy those travel dollars.
    My gripe isn't the amount of money being spent as much as the pride that some take in it and the apparent lack of missional value realized in the process. When the denomination asks for my money, they implicitly ask me to trust them to spend it wisely. As far as I'm concerned that they have squandered that trust.

    That doesn't mean that those who attend are wasting their time, just that whatever value they realize doesn't seem to trickle any farther than their household.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    So which is it? Is the General Assembly a 2-bit small potatoes convention being catered to by a third rate visitor's bureau, or a behemoth empire wasting millions of dollars to simply throw their weight around? These seem mutually exclusive to me, but you seem to be making both cases in this thread.
    Neither. The denomination is required by polity to host a General Assembly every four years and the people in charge try to do so without 'giving away the store', while others feel compelled to make it bigger than it really is. If that seems conflicted, it's because both forces are at work in the denomination.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Hey, here's a thought. If you think General Assembly is stupid, don't come.
    It's not stupid, and I have considered attending, if only to meet some NazNet people and dispel some of the rumors about my red skin and pitchfork. I think that you know I'm not as scary as all that.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Honesty, based on your years of naznet posts, I'm not sure why you bother with the Nazarene church at all.
    I've wondered that too, but there is something that makes it hard to quit the Nazarenes.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis
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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    So, Billy, your issue with GA is one of pride? I know the CotN has suffered somewhat from Napoleon Syndrome. We're so small compared to the _______________ (fill in the blank with whatever group is prominent in your area), but we're the biggest of the Wesleyan Holiness denominations. This makes us the biggest church in a branch of faith few outside of us are even aware exists.

    SO, I have seen the CotN try to overcompensate in other ways. Perhaps GA is one of those.

    I personally do not take any pride in GA being large. I just think there is nothing in the world that can compare with receiving the Lord's Supper with 20,000 other Nazarenes.

    My earlier posts were written in frustration, and I do apologize for the tone. Yes, I have met you personally and can testify that you are a nice guy. If you drive through this area again, I'll try to visit for more than five minutes.
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    Site Manager G R 'Scott' Cundiff's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    It's not stupid, and I have considered attending, if only to meet some NazNet people and dispel some of the rumors about my red skin and pitchfork. I think that you know I'm not as scary as all that.
    I just want to post to say I've never thought of you as a red neck farmer, so you are safe with me.

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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by G R 'Scott' Cundiff View Post
    I just want to post to say I've never thought of you as a red neck farmer, so you are safe with me.
    I guess Billy forgot to mention the horns and the tail
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    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Deventer View Post
    I guess Billy forgot to mention the horns and the tail
    That one didn't survive the first draft.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis

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    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    So, Billy, your issue with GA is one of pride? I know the CotN has suffered somewhat from Napoleon Syndrome. We're so small compared to the _______________ (fill in the blank with whatever group is prominent in your area), but we're the biggest of the Wesleyan Holiness denominations. This makes us the biggest church in a branch of faith few outside of us are even aware exists.

    SO, I have seen the CotN try to overcompensate in other ways. Perhaps GA is one of those.

    I personally do not take any pride in GA being large. I just think there is nothing in the world that can compare with receiving the Lord's Supper with 20,000 other Nazarenes.

    My earlier posts were written in frustration, and I do apologize for the tone. Yes, I have met you personally and can testify that you are a nice guy. If you drive through this area again, I'll try to visit for more than five minutes.
    It gets my attenion whenever I manage to anger someone in my 'friend' column. It means that I have taken a concern one bridge too far, and I apologize for doing so.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis

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    Senior Member Hans Deventer's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    I guess the problem is where we'd want to attach a price tag to something people feel cannot be tagged that way. Now there IS a price tag, that fact is beyond denial. And that's the very problem. It could be calculated to the last US dollar what the costs of a GA are.
    The problem is in the benefit. How do we calculate that? And when would our expenses be in balance with said value? These, it seems to me, are our fundamental questions.

    I want to thank the participants in this thread. It has, at least to me, been helpful.
    Love the sinner, hate the sin? Love the sinner and hate your own sin! - Tony Campolo
    Thanks David Morris, David Pettigrew, Billy Cox - "thanks" for this post

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    Host Book, Movie & CE forums Ryan Scott's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    There are a lot of conflicting interests - Billy had brought them out well.

    Currently, I believe, the Nazarene General Assembly is the largest religious convention in the US. Does it have to be that way? Absolutely not - it just happens to be that right now. It would most likely have to look different to be somewhere outside the US.

    I don't see any immediate indication things are going to change - perhaps next summer will give us a good discussion as to its purpose.

    I appreciate the effort to make it a family gathering - and we're just going to have to work through the issues that come with an ever increasing and globally diverse family.
    ...just my $.02.
    Thanks Marsha Lynn, Rich Schmidt - "thanks" for this post

  25. #105
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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Read what Billy is saying as they want us to be there and give us good rates as a result. It is always wise to be smart with God's money.

    Alisa

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morris View Post
    $23 of that $44,000 000 was generated from people leaving tips at restaurants.
    What was it a Kansas City bellhop was alleged to have said sometime back in the 50's: The Nazarenes came to KC with a $10 bill in one hand and a copy of the Ten Commandments in the other and never broke either one." (This joke hasn't been adjusted for inflation)

  27. #107
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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kennedy View Post
    What was it a Kansas City bellhop was alleged to have said sometime back in the 50's: The Nazarenes came to KC with a $10 bill in one hand and a copy of the Ten Commandments in the other and never broke either one." (This joke hasn't been adjusted for inflation)
    I'm wondering if its actually a joke. Bwahhahaha.
    Thanks John Kennedy - "thanks" for this post

  28. #108
    Senior Member Michael Flowers's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    If you want to reduce the cost, then just reduce the number of delegates to say, 1 per district. Also, the Illinois district has moved to having a combined NMI/SDMI/NYI convention, is there some reason why it would be impossible to do this at the General level? Also, maybe if we cut out the extras. When I went in 2001 and 2005 (Teen Bible Quizzing, though elected as an NYI delegate in '05) there were a bunch of extra activities going on for the youth and I wonder how much those things added to the cost of the event (I would estimate that the late night activities alone probably added between 50k-100k).

    As to the next GA, if it is in the US then I really feel that Indianapolis is the best local because it is centrally located and does have a strong volunteer group. No destination is perfect, but Indy has been a very good one. As far as outside the US, Seoul sounds really interesting to me (though I wouldn't be going unless I was a delegate, no way to afford that trip).

  29. #109
    Senior Member David Morris's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Flowers View Post
    If you want to reduce the cost, then just reduce the number of delegates to say, 1 per district. Also, the Illinois district has moved to having a combined NMI/SDMI/NYI convention, is there some reason why it would be impossible to do this at the General level? Also, maybe if we cut out the extras. When I went in 2001 and 2005 (Teen Bible Quizzing, though elected as an NYI delegate in '05) there were a bunch of extra activities going on for the youth and I wonder how much those things added to the cost of the event (I would estimate that the late night activities alone probably added between 50k-100k).

    As to the next GA, if it is in the US then I really feel that Indianapolis is the best local because it is centrally located and does have a strong volunteer group. No destination is perfect, but Indy has been a very good one. As far as outside the US, Seoul sounds really interesting to me (though I wouldn't be going unless I was a delegate, no way to afford that trip).
    All of those activities were cut out of the programming for 2009 in Orlando. The Global NYI Council (I believe it was them) decided that if they weren't able to produce the activities at the other world locations where NYI delegates were voting from, then they wouldn't do them at the US site. They are striving hard for everyone to have the same experience.

  30. #110
    Senior Member Mike Schutz's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morris View Post
    All of those activities were cut out of the programming for 2009 in Orlando. The Global NYI Council (I believe it was them) decided that if they weren't able to produce the activities at the other world locations where NYI delegates were voting from, then they wouldn't do them at the US site. They are striving hard for everyone to have the same experience.
    And of course - planning activities for teens in Orlando would be - well, I guess redundant would be a good word..
    "Fully embracing the Gospel, fully engaging the world"

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    Senior Member Tyler McCarthy's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Personally, I'd like to see GA return home, to KANSAS CITY!

    NYI's vote by proxy at the 8 different global Nazarene-Cities is a great way to get more international participation. So that with customs and travel it may be cheaper for a delegate to go to Johannesburg, instead of Indianapolis from Nairobi. Indy is nice, and the largest concentration of Nazarenes are in IL, IN, and OH.

    Many travel studies show that there is a lull in travel to a city after they have hosted the Olympics. So the GA-Committee could work on deals to get venues for cheaper to encourage a convention to host in that city. And seeing as we are in the off year of the Olympics that is enough turn around time. So in 2017 we would be in Rio De Janeiro. Have thought about when dates would be if ever hosted in the Southern Hemisphere?

    I always imagined GA as the Summer Olympics and NYC as the Winter Olympics.
    Gone but not forgotten.

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    Thanks Craig Laughlin - "thanks" for this post

  32. #112
    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler McCarthy View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see GA return home, to KANSAS CITY!

    NYI's vote by proxy at the 8 different global Nazarene-Cities is a great way to get more international participation. So that with customs and travel it may be cheaper for a delegate to go to Johannesburg, instead of Indianapolis from Nairobi. Indy is nice, and the largest concentration of Nazarenes are in IL, IN, and OH.

    Many travel studies show that there is a lull in travel to a city after they have hosted the Olympics. So the GA-Committee could work on deals to get venues for cheaper to encourage a convention to host in that city. And seeing as we are in the off year of the Olympics that is enough turn around time. So in 2017 we would be in Rio De Janeiro. Have thought about when dates would be if ever hosted in the Southern Hemisphere?

    I always imagined GA as the Summer Olympics and NYC as the Winter Olympics.
    I agree. The argument against it has always been that they do not have enough space for the Sunday morning service but they are going to two services so that would work for Kansas City.
    It is not enough to be right, you have to be like Jesus.
    Thanks Tyler McCarthy - "thanks" for this post

  33. #113
    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    My understanding from a good source is they reversed the decision on the two services, but perhaps I misunderstood.

  34. #114
    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    My understanding from a good source is they reversed the decision on the two services, but perhaps I misunderstood.
    I hadn't heard that. I thought they didn't have room for one service? I'm not really in the loop anyway.
    It is not enough to be right, you have to be like Jesus.

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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    I could easily be wrong but that is what I was told by someone involved with the volunteer base in Indy.
    Thanks Craig Laughlin - "thanks" for this post

  36. #116
    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    I could easily be wrong but that is what I was told by someone involved with the volunteer base in Indy.
    I don't doubt you are right. I'm just behind the news cycle. - Not a bad thing. Personally, I think multiple services is much better stewardship because it would open up a bunch of other cities for GA including Kansas City. We are probably paying a lot for our emotional attachment to a single service.
    It is not enough to be right, you have to be like Jesus.

  37. #117
    Host Book, Movie & CE forums Ryan Scott's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    In Orlando they had two meeting spaces - the worship service/NMI convention and then the NYI/GA convention space. Really, you don't need both so long as there was some place for the musicians to practice.

    I don't see how the current style of GA will last for much longer. It doesn't make sense to make GA a vacation destination when it prices out an increasingly large number of members.

    I think KC could work fine - they could have a pretty good sized exhibit space, plus a 12,000 seat meeting area. I know they had 20,000 for Sunday morning in Orlando, but I don't think the same would happen in KC.
    ...just my $.02.
    Thanks Craig Laughlin, Mike Schutz - "thanks" for this post

  38. #118
    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Scott View Post
    In Orlando they had two meeting spaces - the worship service/NMI convention and then the NYI/GA convention space. Really, you don't need both so long as there was some place for the musicians to practice.

    I don't see how the current style of GA will last for much longer. It doesn't make sense to make GA a vacation destination when it prices out an increasingly large number of members.

    I think KC could work fine - they could have a pretty good sized exhibit space, plus a 12,000 seat meeting area. I know they had 20,000 for Sunday morning in Orlando, but I don't think the same would happen in KC.
    C'mon. That would be like the Israelites in 1 Kings skpping the Temple Dedication because they couldn't arrange childcare. Some things are worth sacrificing for.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis

  39. #119
    Senior Member Roy Richardson's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    When I was on the Eastern Michigan District, I tried to get our DS to campaign for Detroit as a site. Great airport, lots of meeting space, hotels are a bit of an issue but they are relatively close. Plus, Detroit is close to Canada and a 4 hour drive from Toronto.

    Maybe someday

  40. #120
    Host Book, Movie & CE forums Ryan Scott's Avatar

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    Re: Where could the next GA be, after 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Morris View Post
    $23 of that $44,000 000 was generated from people leaving tips at restaurants.
    Which is also why we'll never be welcome in San Antonio ever again.

    I still have a tip calculator card they gave out at registration from that GA - never been used.
    ...just my $.02.
    Thanks Roy Richardson - "thanks" for this post

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