Need help, Mr. Long....

[Dana Grant]

Jonathan --

I have this idea for an inspirational photo -- so I'm not going to tell you the story behind it yet.......but I've seen this before and am trying to recreate it.....

The problem is -- the lighting. You can see too much reflection in the ring.

Here's my idea -- tell me if I'm close.......if I surround this with white, plus maybe put my lens through a hole in a white board, for example, do you think this would help with the bad reflections? The problem is, I think it is my camera in the reflections......and you can't really move the light around much because then the shadow doesn't cast correctly......



Time for another lesson.....

-- thanks!

Dana

[Jonathan Long]

Dana,

The idea that you're talking about is using a "light tent" to diffuse the lighting. It will cut down on the hot spot on the ring, it will also cut down on the shadow cast from the ring... which is part of the effect that you want to keep...

I have three thoughts that should help:

1. Remember this rule of light; angle of incidence = angle of reflection. Basically it means if you're getting glare try moving the position of either the camera or the light. In your case, you want the shadow thats cast to create the heart... so the light needs to stay in that location. The only other option is to change the angle of the camera so the glare isn't reflected towards the lens. Imagine shinning a flashlight into a mirror. If you hold the flashlight at a 90 degree angle to the mirror the light returns along the same path, but if you angle the flashlight at a 45 degree angle to the mirror the light travels on a 45 degree angle off the mirror... (get it?)

2. Light tenting is most often associated with using bright white reflective fabric on all sides (and top), but sometimes you need to control glare because of the shape of the object (a curved object - like your ring) can reflect light at a surprising angle.... In your case it appears that the light is set to a high angle to get the desired shape for the shadow. That makes the far top edge of the ring closer to the light. There are two options for using a light tent in this situation:
A. Use dark fabric to create a top for the light tent - I'd suggest positioning it above the light and forward enough that it is directly above the ring. This will cut down on the reflection (but not remove it, and really you don't want to remove it totally - it provides depth for your object which makes it visually more appealing... you just want to control the brightness and size of the reflection...
B. You could use what's known as a "gobo" between the light and the object. A gobo is an any object used to block the lights direct path to the object. The trick is the positioning of the gobo. It needs to be close enough to the object to block any direct lighting, at the same time it needs to be close enough to the light source that it won't cast it's own shadow.... I've used objects(like popcicle sticks attached to piano wire) as gobo's for a long time, they work great for smaller items and you can adjust the width by rotating the stick... I've also used cardboard shapes that I cutout and taped to piano wire so I could cover odd shapes. I've also used small frames formed from piano wire and covered with nylon to reduce the direct light but not totally remove all of it from hitting the object.... If you chose this route I'll give you a hint and tell you start by positioning the gobo closer to the light... it will be a series of trial and error.
C. Options to reduce the reflection qualities. It could be a simple as adding a little bit of hair spray using a q-tip to the top back edge. Another option would be to try shooting the shot with a Polarizing filter, this won't remove the glare... but it will cut down on it's intensity.

So... after all of that....is your head spinning?

I shoot shiny metal all of the time... There are more options than the ones I've listed above, and I tried to make it easy to understand... If you need additional clarification let me know.

[Dana Grant]

OKAAAYyy, then......I have lots to work with here. You are GOOOOOD, Jonathan!! LOL Good grief! THANKS!!!! Believe it or not, I thought of putting SOMETHING on the ring to cut down on the glare....didn't think of hair spray, but that is a good idea. Ok, back to the drawing board.

It's so nice to know that even the PROS use trial and error as a means of getting to their desired photo....LOL

Thanks again....(do you know how many of your posts I have printed over the past 6 years???? LOL)

Dana

[Jonathan Long]

Dana,

This thread is taking me back to photography school...... Lighting 201 ( I think).

I love the idea that you're working with. I've seen it before, but each time it brings back a flood of memories: learning about the qualities of light, understanding why I should have paid more attention in Geometry...., how to approach each situation as unique - but understanding that light always follows the same rules (if you remember that it can save you so much time and grief!).

After you experience working with shiny objects for the first time, most photographers tend to: shy away for a long time OR decide that they will master it...

It does make me shudder to think that you print my posts for latter reference....

They make a product called a "dulling spray" for photographic use... I've never used it. I try to not modify the object at all because it then no longer represents what the object actually looks like, and for a paying client that's not good.

Photography is learning how to capture light. Plain and simple. The Art of photography is making what you capture interesting and unique.

Have fun!

Jon

[Jonathan Long]

Dana,

To answer the question about the reflection of your camera... You could use a black board with a hole cutout for your lens. You could also use white or grey (if you use white... you will still see your lens), what you use should be decided by the desired "look" that you're after.

I've shot objects that I enclosed in a tent of black fabric when there were too many angles of reflection... it comes down to what the desired effect is for the picture.

Jon

[Dana Grant]

Hmmmmm.....well, I guess I'll have to try both the white and the black. This one really has me stumped. I can't tell you how many shots I have taken from how many angles......Ok, well, back to the drawing board. I have had two days of minimal workload, so I'm "playing" for a few hours....thanks again.

[Dana Grant]

Looking on the internet at other photographers' interpretation of this same picture -- I am seeing the same problem -- black reflections in the rings. The main difference is that my ring is a wide band, and most of theirs are narrower, which cuts down on the impact of the reflection. Yes, I have some work to do with this one......I suppose that 35 years ago when I got married and we picked out rings, I never thought about this wide band giving me so much trouble......ha ha ha

[Gina Stevenson]

Not a photographer of the sort you two are, but when reading first post, seeing the black reflection, tho't of finding some paper as close as possible to the ring color and somehow shooting through that, along w/other light suggestions ????

[Jonathan Long]

Gina,

Colored paper would create a overall tint to the photograph, and trying to align correctly would be rather difficult.

Using a second light to illuminate the bottom of the ring would require a pinpoint light source with enough power to brighten the reflection and enough ability to focus the light so it didn't affect the shadow created by the ring.

Both ideas you came up with are possible, unfortunately even I don't have the light that would be needed for that precise of a pinpoint, nor would I use a gold colored reflector or ceiling to the light tent since it would affect the color balance of everything (although this could be corrected using computer editing).

It's good to see another person thinking of ways that may help Dana out.

There is one additional option that I haven't mentioned yet.... and I'm hoping that someone thinks of it and posts it as a possible option that could be explored....

If no one can I'll post it in a day or two....

Jon

[Gina Stevenson]

Tho I can see the reason for that stuff that takes the shine off, can see too why one might not want to do that if they prefer a shiny ring to appesr as it is ... But if used, it might just appear to have a nice satin/brushed finish.

Thanks for explaining, btw, why the paper might color the whole thing. Was just thinking of its being small enough to cover the black camera that now appears there.

BTW, Dana, that is one cool idea, all these hearts ... loved that music-related heart made by folding the music!

[Jonathan Long]

Gina,

The "Dulling Spray" actually makes the item look like it has a satin finish. It won't remove a "hot spot" caused by the lights, but it will reduce how much glare is created.

Using a "light tent" (which usually looks more like a tepee) is a good option for items with curves. The trick is hiding the lens which has to poke thru a hole in the tepee... everything else is white and then your lens shows up in a reflection as a black spot... you need to be creative about where you place that reflection.

Jon

[Gina Stevenson]

Ok. Thanks, Jonathan. Having some old photos that remind me of "postcards," have had an interest for a long time, but just not very active at it for years, so I tend to read your "stuff," too, tho' rarely commenting.