And I sat down to catch up on NazNet this evening with a hot individual pizza, nice brown cheese on top and crispy crust. Thank you very much for the word pictures! Ha!Originally Posted by Paul DeBaufer
Friend,
Wes
And I sat down to catch up on NazNet this evening with a hot individual pizza, nice brown cheese on top and crispy crust. Thank you very much for the word pictures! Ha!
Friend,
Wes
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I often regret eating my meals at the computer whilst reading naznet....so many word pictures abound.
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
I haven't read all of the comments, but I think I would opt for cremation. I have no theological qualms about it. Besides I've decided that I'm claustrophobic and I don't think I could stand being being buried!
So is it worth the extra thousands of dollars just to make things easier for descendents who might or might not go looking for family graves in the future? A good question to ask (and there will be different answers for different people).
Last edited by Pete Vecchi; April 6th, 2012 at 09:17 AM. Reason: Rich Schmidt :-)
Unless it was a tiny cemetery, why do it at night? If it was only a "few" people, I would think it could be discretely done in broad daylight. And while I generally don't go in for breaking laws, some laws are nit picky. I know that the reason for not doing this would likely be that if too many people did it, there would be a problem with too many blowing ashes (pollution). But one person doing it once in a while really wouldn't hurt anything.I had a pastor friend ask for my advice... One of his grandparents had died, and his mom wanted him to join her and some other family members for a middle-of-the-night jumping of the cemetery's fence so they could scatter the ashes over the grave of the grandparent's spouse. They wanted him with them to lead a quick little service. He told them he didn't think it was a good idea. I agreed with him.
All that being said, I reiterate that I don't condone lawbreaking, and I also realize that anyone doing such a thing should be prepared to face the consequences meted out by the civil authorities if they choose to disobey the law.
I doubt your ancestors will go looking for your grave in the future, Pete.
Your descendants, maybe.
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 4 LaughingVivian Cornwell - "thanks" for this post
Oops, OK, I edited it, Rich...and gave you credit for it!I doubt your ancestors will go looking for your grave in the future, Pete.
Your descendants, maybe.
Sorry, Pete,
Gonna have to write you up for this. This type of sin is a cousin to lust. Not actually doing it, but being willing. Can't let you get away with this. Talking to God later this morning. Again, sorry!
Friend,
Wes
PS. Just so you know, I would have said "Yes!" to such an invitation. Anything to break the boredom of traditional day-to-day ministry! What a GREAT way to get your name in the paper!
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Funny, I never thought about lusting over cremains before...
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Ashes isn't exactly the correct concept: certainly not light fluffy stuff like cigarette ashes. That kind of material is usually also incinerated. Cremains are almost exclusively what is left after the remaining bones are crushed. One crematory website I read said after the body is incinerated, the resultant bones are reduced with the use of a large "blender." That website encouraged people to do traditional burials. I have participated in four commitals where the cremains were distributed, either into a hole in the ground, or into water. In at least two of those winds were strong, but there was no problem with cremains going where they were intended. In the event of survivors desiring to scatter cremains, it seems like a little wind wouldn't be the worst thing anyway.
Wes -
I often tell the people in my choir that while I am willing to hear their confession, not being ordained prevents my granting absolution.
However, since you probably brought your elder's credentials with you to Costa Rica (?), please go ahead and absolve Pete. Even though he's an elder, it's not a do-it-yourself type thing.
This will keep the pipeline from getting clogged so we don't have to call some spiritual roto-rooter service. I mean, with all the ashes (or whatever it is Dennis Scott calls them) you can surely see how this would get to be a problem.
Thanks,
John K.
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But you could stand being burned up?
Please...known by all in these pesences...though it never happened, just thought about...absolved. As though it never happened. As though it was never thought about. Just don't let it happen again, though it never did. And, don't ever think about it again, which you clearly did. Man this gets complicated. Glad I'm retired.
Friend,
Wes
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My best College-buddy committed suicide. Huge tragedy. He was cremated. We "informally" took his cremains to his favorite beach and said a prayer and shared a few memories before pouring them into the water.
Your description fit what I observed...pieces of teeth and bone fragments. Was more like sand or finely crushed rock. The weight of his cremains surprised me. Somewhere around 15 pounds.
Friend,
Wes
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See, this magnanimous action on your part probably kept your credentials valid (if they're anything like teaching credentials). I had a CA Life Credential. For about 3 years after I retired, I had recurring episodes of what I came to think of as the 'dream from hell'.
I was back on the job picking up a new class to 'housebreak'. After about 3 years the dream stopped. I then realized that, since there had been no service rendered on my credential it had expired, and my subconscious (or someone) was telling my 'dreammaker' not to bother sending me - I was no longer properly credentialed.
So, absolve while you've got the ticket.
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I heard one guy say he wanted to have his ashes spread out in the Walmart parking lot. So his wife would come and visit his final resting place everyday.
Someone has had his ashes shot into outerspace on a rocket. I wonder how he will be resurrected and where.
seems the Egyptians were very meticulous at attempting to preserve the bodies of people who had money and not so much with the hired help. Perhaps that carried over to the Israelites.
In Israel family members are buried without cakset, just a shroud wrapping. They are placed in the same grave as thier ancestors and a stone is laid on top. AS the stone sinks into the ground they know the body has returned to dust and the grave will be reused by another family member when it has done so. At the resurrection the thought is the entire family will be together coming up from the same ground.
Muslims bury in simple graves and quickly. They take no preparations and expect the body to not be revered by family aftter the death.
If Egyptians Kings are any measure of perfect burial practices, I suppose the only real difference between cremation and burial is how long it will take for you to turn back to dust.
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Only because it's cheaper. Actually, I won't get a vote. If my wife outlives me, she told me it's a burial; she wants to be able to look at the body and be sure I'm dead.
If I outlive her then I hope that whoever makes that decision goes with whatever is cheaper. Honestly, I wouldn't care if they got a legal death certificate and then loaded my body on a boat (my son-in -law has a 37 footer) and dumped me at sea -- but I don't know if that would be legal.
I have wondered if they could ship my body to some other country where disposal is considerably cheaper and save enough money to make a vacation of it.
As you can tell, I don't spend much time wondering how they will dispose of my body.
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'cremainsophilia" Very, very unusual.Funny, I never thought about lusting over cremains before...
Friend,
Wes
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May I purchase an indulgence for use at some unspecified future time?
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By the way, that answer was purely hypothetical... In actuality, my wife and I plan to be raptured later this year...
(Other people have started getting silly on this thread so I thought it would be OK.)
Wilson
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For all of my adult life I've wanted to be a body donor. I had never really looked into the actual logistics until a year ago when my wife passed away. My phone calls, inquiries, and research indicate the vast majority of state anatomical boards and med schools, etc. have weight limits in place for their cadavers . . .200 pounds. Some go by BMI (max of 30), others have a more liberal weight allowance, but then there are stricter distance standards. In more recent years, I thought I would donate my remains to Dr. Gunther von Haagen's Plastination Institute, aka Body Worlds, but then figured out they may very well sell my plastinated sections. I'm not interested in any capital ventures, however educational or entertaining they may be. At any rate, my first choice is WVU Medical Sciences (provided I can drop about 50 pounds) followed by the University of Tennessee's Forensic Anthropology Center, better known as "The Body Farm." There they take human remains and expose them to the elements of nature under various conditions in order to research the impact of such factors on rate of decay. Vital research for forensic professionals. Bones are retained, and prepared for further research on impact of health/lifestyle impact on bone features. Additional, family can arrange for memorial visits at the center. If all else fails, I am to be cremated after a so-called proper funeral service w/ visitation. However, no caskets or cold marble platforms. I will be positioned in my favorite resting pose....stretched out in my recliner w/ sweatpants, high school sweat shirt, warm socks, glasses propped up on my forehead, Diet Pepsi in one hand, and TV remote in the other. Airing on the TV will be Law & Order SVU and NCIS reruns. I hope you are chuckling over this, but I am being absolutlely serious. Great thing is that I consider our local funeral director a friend, and he is aware of my plans. Additionally, so are my brother & sister-in-law. Given our history together at funerals, I'm confident these wishes will be carried out!
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Certainly. Please discreetly mail a $35,000 Rolex watch to me and you will never hear another word from me about this or any future failure in this regard.
Friend,
Wes
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Isn't that supposed to be some day in May, Wilson? :smeldewhereilies1722:
(seems that is either what we read on here or elsewhere)
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~
Sounds like you may have some interesting stories. Care to share any?
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~
Brian's stories are interesting, for sure.Sounds like you may have some interesting stories. Care to share any?
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Hate to tell you this, and I have no idea how you will break this to your wife, but...we missed it.
From here on out, just do the best you can. It's not looking good. Basing this on the "Left Behind" series.
Friend,
Wes
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 LaughingWilson Deaton - thanks for this funny post
Seems like some pastor should write a book on funerals gone wrong.
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Here's a story for you. Not from a pastor, but from a funeral director. He was working in the greater Cincinnati metro area and was taking a body to eastern KY for a burial. They were headed straight for the cemetary. Upon their arrival at the gate, they were hijacked. Yes, hijacked! A group of people had gathered and would not allow the hearse to enter until they all went up the road to some little backroad church so "Burford" could have a proper funeral service. That service consisted of more than 2 hours of a couple of red-faced hacker-style preachers telling all about Burford's sinful life and how he was going to burn in hell for eternity. One Cincy funeral guy turns to the other and simply says "What an a$$!" He happened to time his statement poorly, coming in between the deep gasps of the preacher, who overhead the comment in the very small country sanctuary. The country preacher jumped (in one bound) from the platform, over the altar, to the floor and continued his flurry in the face of the funeral home employee about how he was going to join Burford in his place of torments. So goes the convicting message of the gospel!
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Okay, you got me going now. I'm bored and I don't want to be cutting the grass.
I assisted in officiating my paternal grandmother's funeral. The officiant was an old family friend of my grandparents and fellow preacher along side my grandfather when he was still living. When "Brother Mack" started his part of the service, I was still seated facing those who came for the service. "Mack" was well into his eighties, and was showing a few signs of dementia from time to time. At one point he turned toward the open casket and was directing others attention to her, saying "How Sister Bessie was such a beautiful corpse! Has anyone ever seen such a beautuful corpse as Sister Bessie!" I am trying my best to hide my grin at his choice of words, and caught sight of a couple of family members (okay, my brother & sister-in-law) chuckling and looking in my direction. You know how it is when you try to stiffle a chuckle... the harder you try, the more like a horse laugh you end up holding back. Well, many of my grandmother's friends were so blessed to see me so shook up over Brother Mack's words. My shoulders were shaking so hard, I was continuing to try to contain myself, my eyes were watering so bad.... and not a tissue nor handkerchief to be found!
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That's good Brian, but you have more to add..... concerning your mothers burial and maybe some other stories.
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Brian's story reminded me of the 2 ladies standing together and staring at the man's body in the casket. One says to the other, "I'm sorry for your loss of your husband, but I have to say he looks better than I have ever seen him look." The wife replies, "He should. It's the first time he's been sober in 20 years."
(Sorry. My sense of humor knows few boundaries.)
I once did a funeral for an elderly lady. She had a son who was a truck driver and who lived with his mother. She had died unexpectedly while he was across the country. He got back the day of the funeral and was not handling the death very well. At the cemetery he lost it and went off on a rampage. He grabbed up a 1/2" metal cross and broke it with his hands. He had choice comments for God, me, his relatives, and anybody else who came to mind. The funeral director rushed over to me and said, "For goodness sake, do something!" I looked at him and said, "I am. I'm staying out of his way."
The last funeral I officiated ran so long at the church (over 2 hours -- the family opened up the floor for anyone who wished to share memories. I didn't know so many people could have so many memories.) When we got to the cemetery, I kept it brief -- about 5 minutes -- and prayed a prayer of commitment and then dismissed the folks. Problem was they didn't want to leave. Finally, the funeral director came over and told me that in about 15 minutes it was going to get dark and they needed to get the body in the ground before then. I made an announcement and told everybody to leave or grandma wasn't going to get buried today. They left.
When my mother-in -law died, my wife and her two sisters went to the funeral home to complete the arrangements including choosing the casket. After looking at several, my wife's older sister picked one and said, "I like this one; it's nice." My wife agreed. The middle sister, who is somewhat more involved in fashion, design, and complementary colors, looked at it and replied, "No way! We're not putting mom in that casket with it's color scheme! It'll make mom look like she's dead!" The funeral director looked at them like, "Huh?" It proved to be a moment of humor that helped them deal with the loss.
I hate funerals that are so somber that they dismiss the blessing of a life well lived. I did a funeral for a dear friend recently. She had been a widow who lived alone for many years. I often helped her with things she couldn't do herself. I told about going to her home to repair a roof leak over her kitchen and an outside deck area. Money was pretty tight at the time. I spent most of a day doing the work and at the end of the day she asked me, "Preacher, how much do I owe you?" I replied, "Oh, I don't know. I really hate to have to charge you anything....." At which point she cut me off by saying, "Well, thank you. I appreciate that."
I told that story at her funeral. Her daughter spoke up and asked, "Are you planning to give us a bill today?" We all laughed. "No," I replied. "She gave me a far greater gift. I have thought of that and had more joy and laughter over the years than if she had given me a wad of bills. That bill has been paid many times over."
Last edited by Glenn Messer; April 7th, 2012 at 04:50 PM.
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We need an icon on here with the smilie on its back laughing hysterically...cuz that's what I am about to do.
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.govPost Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Laughing
when I worked in the pathology department many years ago, there was a several-year long waiting list for donating your body to science at University of Arizona -- so you can't just die and have your family say, here is another body for science -- it has to be set up years in advance with a contract, etc. Just in case someone is thinking along those lines........
edit: when I say years in advance, I guess I mean you definitely have to pre-arrange these things -- but I think they'd take you if you died soon after making the arrangements -- you know, I never really thought of that before. All I know is that we used to call the university for information regarding donation, and they would tell us that they were not opening up that option again for x number of years. Interesting.......
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My Dad, who was able to see humor in an incredible number of things, told me that in all his years of ministry he had never had a funeral in which something didn't happen that required every bit of composure he could summon to keep from breaking out in laughter. This was the guy who would, as several testified at his service, come by when they were feeling down, tell them a joke, get them to laugh, and then pray with them.
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A Boston north shore funeral director told me that once he was called to go to Cape Cod to retrieve a body that had been discovered some time after a gruesome death, in a remote cabin. He admitted it was dark, and late when he arrived, and even later when he got back to the north shore. The arrangement was the it would be a closed casket, but when the family gathered, they insisted on viewing the body. After inspection, they made him go back to Cape Cod, to retrieve the head. Some families are so unreasonable.
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You don't think he was pulling your leg?
Then again... perhaps we shouldn't trust him to pull on anything... it might fall off.
Seriously... it seems like that stunt might be a little difficult to accomplish. I'm having a hard time imagining how he could do that... short of simply loading a casket into the coach and then just dumping random body parts into once he got there. And didn't the ME want to inspect this body at some point?
Maybe they just do things differently down there in MA.
Grace and Peace,
Jon Twitchell
Cape Elizabeth Church of the Nazarene | YourChurchWeb.net | YourChurchPianist.net | FuneralChaplain.com
I don't make these things up. I mean, it's not like a sermon illustration or something.
I would think the ME would have come into play, too. It was an old story when he told me, which has now been thirty years or so.
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Oh... just to be clear... I didn't think YOU were making anything up. Your friend, on the other hand... MAY have been exaggerating?
Perhaps he just thought that the DOVE cleanup guys would be there to take care of whatever body parts he had left behind...I would think the ME would have come into play, too. It was an old story when he told me, which has now been thirty years or so.
Grace and Peace,
Jon Twitchell
Cape Elizabeth Church of the Nazarene | YourChurchWeb.net | YourChurchPianist.net | FuneralChaplain.com
Well, that will be no more. After a fifteen year run, Dove has finished, effective March 17. We're in the process of liquidating right now.
That's more than I can afford, so I guess I'll just have to behave...
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