Could someone give me 10 reasons why we Nazarene are not fundamentalist?
Could someone give me 10 reasons why we Nazarene are not fundamentalist?
Nazarenes and the Fundamentalists - Shelby Corlett (1935)
Strange Bedfellows: The Nazarenes and Fundamentalism - Stan Ingersol (2005)
You might check those out, Larry.
Last edited by Hans Deventer; April 16th, 2012 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Changed link at Ben's request.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 5 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Ben, thanks The hot link to Strange Bedfellows is the same as the first link Again ThanksOriginally Posted by Benjamin Burch
Larry
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 LaughingJim Chabot - "thanks" for this post
Here is a link that has Stan Ingersol's article.
My Friends Call Me Stew!Post Thanks / Like - 3 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Larry and others,
I just posted on Naznet a very short review of the new book, Square Peg: Why Wesleyans Aren't Fundamentalists. Find the longer review of my website:
http://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/b...undamentalism/
Tom
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- Fundamentalists believe the chicken had no choice in crossing the road, Nazarene's do.
- How many Fundamentalists does it take to change a light bulb? NONE! The Bible does not say anything about light bulbs!!!
- How many Nazarenes does it take? While there is no Scriptural mention of light bulbs, reason dictates that we change it and that has been our tradition.
- Nazarenes are typically more fun at parties, but not by much and only compared to Mormons.
- Fundamentalists can say Ass in church. Nazarenes only get to say Donkey.
- Fundamentalist read the KJV. Nazarenes only pray in King James.
- Fundamentalists will mix religion and politics. Nazarenes will not permit mixed bathing.
- Fundamentalists take the Bible literally. Nazarenes got their name from the Bible.
- Nazarenes believe in a big tent. Fundamentalists don't like camping.
- Fundamentalists take things literally. Nazarenes get the joke.
Dave Gerber
"We seriously discuss theology. The heavens laugh."
Skin MinistriesPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 18 LaughingJerry Carr, Roland Hearn, David Graham, Marsha Lynn, Roy Richardson, Susan Unger, G R 'Scott' Cundiff, Jon Bemis, Ryan Pugh and 9 others - thanks for this funny post
This post is impressive. Very, very impressive.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 2 Thanks, 0 Laughing
I forgot 'sarcasm.' you used to be a Nazarene, right? :-)
Once upon a time! Lol, I am just impressed with your ability to put these together and in such a humorous way. Well done. Awesome post.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 4 Thanks, 0 Laughing
I'm still a little sensitive from my experiences on the Holiness Today Facebook page. ;-)
Why do you need 10? I think the articles presented do a pretty good job of explaining how fundamentalism is a bad fit for the CotN
"Love without holiness disintegrates into sentimentality. Personal integrity is lost. But holiness without love is not holiness at all. In spite of its label, it displays harshness, judgmentalism, a critical spirit, and all its capacity for discrimination end in nit-picking and divisiveness."-Mildred Bangs WynkoopPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Sorry, Larry.
Strange Bedfellows: The Nazarenes and Fundamentalism - Stan Ingersol (2005)
For some reason it won't allow me to edit my first post. Could a moderator fix the URL for me? Thanks!
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
I agree with Ben your post was neat. What does the fundamentalists believe about hens?Ha
thanks
Larry
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Wow. That short article fits our current situation so well!
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Ben, thank you for posting these links, they are very helpful for my current situation.
Amazing indeed. It could have been written today. Seems little changes, if at all. The only difference is the internet we have today.
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
What do you think, Larry. Did you get sufficient answers?
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
David Gerber, the NN forum would not allow me to click the "laughing" button 3-4 times, if I were to be allowed to click it as many times as your post got me LOL'ing!
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 1 Laughing
I don't know how Ben could possibly stay away. Someday he'll be back.
Did you write this, or was it among the "hidden" writings of Phineas Bresee?
Sadly, although I believe this to be just as relevant today as it must have been back then, someone will inevitably tell me that I have (once again!) misunderstood and misread the author's true intent.
For instance: I read, "It is absolutely impossible for us to accept their extreme positions on the verbal inspiration of the Bible as differing from the plenary inspiration as held by our church..." They will tell me it says, "We believed, and always have believed, in the verbal and inerrant Word of God."
Thanks for the post, Ben. Even though I am surely misreading it, I liked it.
Dave Gerber
"We seriously discuss theology. The heavens laugh."
Skin MinistriesPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
They weren't hidden so much as just creatively stored in the archives. :-)
Hans, I have always knew that we were not fundamentalist. What brought this on. I was talking to one of our preacher and I mention that the church of the Nazarene was not a fundamentalist. He said we used to be and I said no we was never a fundamental church and told him that does mean that we don’t believe in fundamentals doctrine of the bible. I told him our church is not like the fundamental Baptist and I mention Jerry Falwel. After I left him I wish I had a list of reason why to share with him. This is the reason I ask for list. Dennis Bratcher has paper call Neo- Fundamentalism that you may like to read. Han, we are evangelical and not fundamentalist. and there is big diffrence between us that I have just learn and for fun I will try to come up with 10 reasons why we are not fundamentalist to share with my friend so thanks
Larry
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I must be ignorant. I can't find anything on the HT FB page by you Dave.
He's talking about the loooooooong comment thread on this post: http://www.facebook.com/holinesstoda...09858145794127
Thanks. There's an hour of my life I will never get back
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I know from what I have read of Wiley he was pretty big in trying to keep the CotN out of the fundamentalist movement and thinking.
"Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."Post Thanks / Like - 2 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Okay, I'll agree that the COTN is "generally" not Fundamentalist...... but in the 24 years or so that I was a part of it, I found that it was incredibly legalistic..... especially here in Queensland....... e.g. No Drinking, No Dancing, No Movies, No Smoking, No Make-up (and for me especially..... No dress ring, no wrist watch with a bright blue face, no bright ties, no shoulder length hair and no dating women who came from a more "liberal" Nazarene church)
In fact some of my "fundy" friends used to be critical of the COTN because of its legalism. (SOme of them drank and smoked) Yet, today, when I look at the Fundamentalist churches they are very legalistic and authoritarian in other ways. So how can the COTN be nonfundamentalist and yet legalistic in some parts of the world?
Is it possible? If not, are those branches of the COTN fundamentalist also?
Personally I would find Fundamentalism and legalism as "friendly bedfellows"!
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David,
Legalism and fundamentalism are in fact two different things but I doubt people that are overly legalistic have too clear a grasp on why we are not fundamentalists anyway. However, to be fair, I know that my parents were part of the early scene and where quite comfortable with legalism though rarely had the dismissiveness that went with it. I was, however, clearly able to understand why we were not fundamentalists at a fairly young age because of the way they structured their faith.
As far as I am aware the early Nazarene leaders immediately recognised the problems associated with fundamentalism when it raised its head about the time that the church was coming together. There was never a time that the church saw itself as part of the fundamentalist cause. I actually touched on this on Sunday. While many may have even felt some of the principles were important no early leader was prepared to say that these are the things that make a Christian a Christian which is what fundamentalism basically stands for. We have always believed that we are saved by grace through faith and that for us means that anything that substitutes something else for grace is a problem and that includes correct belief. An insistence on correct belief says in short we are saved by the fitness of our belief which is “fundamentally (excused the pun) flawed. Fundamentalism's biggest problem is not that they assert literal inspiration of scriptures (only one of their fundamental assertion) – it is that they think that believing such is essential to salvation. If they held that position but said there was room for other views we probably would feel quite comfortable with them after all they are committed to dispensationalism -just like we are (quoting from Foghorn Leghorn for those that may be scratching their heads about my last sentence: “That’s a joke son”).
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Those who lean toward fundamentalism also stay away from reading Wiley, Corlett, and Ingersol. They likely aren't reading a lot of Benjamin Burch, either.
Ingersol? Good grief, he's an archivist! They don't know what one of those is, but it must be something Catholic.
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WE really do need a ROTFLOL smilie cuz that's what I am doing! [says the daughter of a university archivist]
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
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I know that Nazarenes are not fundamentalists from my father who was a Naz pastor.
When moving to another church, he told our family that the new destination had a nicer parsonage and more young people with whom we could associate. He didn't mention anything about, "God has called me...."
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Many of the rules (legalism), was a backlash at the society of the day. They where looking for a way to set themselves apart from the world of that day and time. I know though that drinking probably had more to with prohibition and those who came out of alcoholism than probably just being legalistic. Since the church formed during the time of prohibition in the United States.
"Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
Had to google that one. I suppose I am now of the age where rolling on the floor when laughing isn't likely to happen.
BILL
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Also helps to have the giggle gene within ya, Bill. Like having a funny bone in your soul that erupts at the strangest moments. That'd be me.
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.govPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Like even in church sometimes when it is not quite the time ?
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~
Oh, I do that allllll the time....right in the middle of the sermon.Like even in church sometimes when it is not quite the time ?
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.govPost Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Laughing
"....Then the manner in which some of these leaders assume the position of
judges over God‟s heritage is absolutely disgusting. We were in conversation
with the president of a thoroughly orthodox holiness college, belonging to a
sister holiness denomination, in which he told of his experience with the
organized Fundamentalist group. This group was investigating the standing
of colleges so as to present a list of “Fundamentalist” schools to the church
world. Because of a difference in belief on the second coming of Christ this
holiness school was excluded from the list. We agree fully with the president
of that college when he said, “Who are those fellows that we should depend
upon their endorsement to make us an orthodox college?” There is not a
holiness college in existence which needs the endorsement of that group,
and any such college that courts their favor compromises its doctrinal
position to secure it...."
Amazing this was from 1935. Sounds like the man was writing about Lighthouse Trails Research and Reformed Nazarene websites of today.
"And as we pass the collection plate, please give as if the person next to you was watching."
-Rev. LovejoyPost Thanks / Like - 4 Thanks, 0 Laughing
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