Young Pastors Leading Large Churches

[Dan Henderson]

What is largest Nazarene church, by Sunday morning attendance, led by a pastor under 30? Under 25?

This question is based on one of my hidden agendas? I'm gonna keep it hidden but a hint is 1 Tim 4:12

[Michael Flowers]

I am not sure how we could find this out, but my hunch is that the largest church pastored by a minister under 25 would likely be smaller than 100.

As for the largest with an under 30 pastor, I have no idea.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

I am wondering why headcount matters in relation to the scripture you quote, Dan? Is there a correlation?

[Dan Henderson]

I am wondering why headcount matters in relation to the scripture you quote, Dan? Is there a correlation?

I'm glad you asked It has absolutely no relationship to the Scripture I quoted. It has to do with my perception of how we measure success, level of responsibility, or level of importance. This is the other side of my brain working through a train of thought that thinks an elder=an elder=an elder; 15 or 115.

I also think that we have assigned a higher level of importance on primarily administrative functions versus the primarily pastoral functions, but that might be another topic thread.

Michael, I was part of a board that called a pastor under 30 to a church of ~ 200, though I think that is rare. I think you are in effect, correct, with your assumption, which would lead to my follow-up question, Why?

[Craig Laughlin]

which would lead to my follow-up question, Why?

Probably for the same reasons you don't see very many CEO's under the age of 25 or 30 in very large companies. Even with extremely talented people and high quality education it takes time to learn the skills necessary to lead larger organizations. There are some extraordinary people that can pull it off very young but most of the rest of us have to work through the learning curve.

I don't think there is any inherently greater value/spirituality etc in a pastor of a larger church but there is a different skill set in play. (Probably more business related than spiritual) Smaller church pastors may have this as well. We just have evidence of it in someone who has been the pastor of a larger church.

[Eric Frey]

Probably for the same reasons you don't see very many CEO's under the age of 25 or 30 in very large companies. Even with extremely talented people and high quality education it takes time to learn the skills necessary to lead larger organizations. There are some extraordinary people that can pull it off very young but most of the rest of us have to work through the learning curve.

I don't think there is any inherently greater value/spirituality etc in a pastor of a larger church but there is a different skill set in play. (Probably more business related than spiritual) Smaller church pastors may have this as well. We just have evidence of it in someone who has been the pastor of a larger church.

I think it is interesting that you connect this with the business world. I have a friend in the business world to observed to me that if business worked the way churches do, we woud be in bad shape. His point of reference was the way young leaders are set up. In business, if you have a promising young leader, he says they are put in situations where they will accumulate lots of quick, easy successes. His observation of the church is that often the promising young pastors are put in the most challenging small churches where they are constantly frustrated and often see themselves as failing...

Perhaps another slant on Dan's question might be, how many Elders under the age of 40 are on any district committees... DAB, Studies, Credentials, Finance, Camp, NYI, NMI, SS, whatever? I was talking with a friend, and off the top of our heads, of all those positions, we came up with 2. One on NYI and one on Studies. There may be others, we just couldn't recall any.

[Dan Henderson]

Perhaps another slant on Dan's question might be, how many Elders under the age of 40 are on any district committees... DAB, Studies, Credentials, Finance, Camp, NYI, NMI, SS, whatever? I was talking with a friend, and off the top of our heads, of all those positions, we came up with 2. One on NYI and one on Studies. There may be others, we just couldn't recall any.

I like it, I like it a lot. I would like to keep the questions to 30 and below though.

I remember a recent conversation where I was pshawed (a polite form of you must be crazy) for suggesting that a 15 year old could be a full board member (NYI president in this case.) The "end all" argument was that a 15 year old could not be trusted to be discrete enough for executive sessions. My response was that I viewed 15 year old, immature pre-adults, as more reliable than 50 year old gossips.

In case you haven't figued out where I am coming from, I view the potential of a young adult's contribution as equal to the potential of a mature adult's contribution. When asked by this same group where I thought teens should be serving, I said, "Everywhere, has no teen expressed a call to the preaching ministry? If so, why haven't they preached yet?"

[Dan Henderson]

Another slant would be to ask how many of your districts have a formal mentoring program for young pastors? Follow-up, if you have formal mentoring program do you use it and how effective is it?

[David Snodgrass]

I'm 29. I pastor a church that has a membership of 256 and we currently run 80-95 on any given Sunday. Had 150 on Easter Sunday morning. I currently serve on our district's NYI council and district vice-president.

I won't be ordained until 2013 which means I won't be eligible to sit on other boards, e.g. studies, credentials, dab, etc... until then.

Our district does have an intentional mentoring program. I am currently a part of a leadership class that meets once a month with our DS. 7 of us meet to discuss leadership, social trends in our culture and churches and we also examine ourselves and how we can become better pastors and leaders. The DS also includes a "how to session" each month. How to hold an annual meeting, how to have a difficult conversation, how to take in new members, and other topics of that nature.

I hope this information helps with your research.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

Dan, keep in mind regional differences. New England just does not have the bigger churches as much of the rest of the country. We do take "Live Free or Die" pretty individually up here The side effect of which is, lots of us are bi vocational -- there just is not the money for full time paid positions. That kind of life takes some maturity to sustain, although it is not exclusive to those of us over 30 by any means.

[Craig Laughlin]

I think it is interesting that you connect this with the business world. I have a friend in the business world to observed to me that if business worked the way churches do, we woud be in bad shape. His point of reference was the way young leaders are set up. In business, if you have a promising young leader, he says they are put in situations where they will accumulate lots of quick, easy successes. His observation of the church is that often the promising young pastors are put in the most challenging small churches where they are constantly frustrated and often see themselves as failing...

Perhaps another slant on Dan's question might be, how many Elders under the age of 40 are on any district committees... DAB, Studies, Credentials, Finance, Camp, NYI, NMI, SS, whatever? I was talking with a friend, and off the top of our heads, of all those positions, we came up with 2. One on NYI and one on Studies. There may be others, we just couldn't recall any.

Yeah, I think you are right. When I was in the business world I had several mentors that both helped me a lot and "promoted" me to the higher ups. When I left I was in line for a very high paying job and was considered the front runner. I was 29. I benefited from the fact that I had been blessed with some very talented mentors that enjoyed investing in the next generation and ran interference for me.

I actually think the best preparation for a larger church is probably being a staff member in a larger church. especially if the Sr. likes to mentor. The skills for a church in the 40's and a church in the 400's are very different. (I've done both) I've noticed that a lot of the pastors of larger churches never pastored smaller churches. They were associates for 10+ years in big churches then go to a church of 150 to 200+ as Sr. Pastor.

I would love to see a real mentoring program among clergy but (at the risk of getting myself in trouble) I don't want to invest myself in someone who doesn't have his/her act together and there are way to many pastors that fit that category. So "imposed" systems aren't going to work well. Rather we need to find a way to create a rich environment to grow mentoring connections.

[Craig Laughlin]

I like it, I like it a lot. I would like to keep the questions to 30 and below though.

I remember a recent conversation where I was pshawed (a polite form of you must be crazy) for suggesting that a 15 year old could be a full board member (NYI president in this case.) The "end all" argument was that a 15 year old could not be trusted to be discrete enough for executive sessions. My response was that I viewed 15 year old, immature pre-adults, as more reliable than 50 year old gossips.

In case you haven't figued out where I am coming from, I view the potential of a young adult's contribution as equal to the potential of a mature adult's contribution. When asked by this same group where I thought teens should be serving, I said, "Everywhere, has no teen expressed a call to the preaching ministry? If so, why haven't they preached yet?"

I was elected to my first church board at the age of 15 as NYI pres. With the exception of a few years off in college and a few off while transitioning from one place to another I have been on church boards all my life.

[Michael Flowers]

Another slant would be to ask how many of your districts have a formal mentoring program for young pastors? Follow-up, if you have formal mentoring program do you use it and how effective is it?

The Illinois district has one. It is still new and I am just getting into it because I was part of a different mentor group as part of MA at Olivet. Because of it's newness there are still some kinks to work out, but this is an area that the district leadership has noticed needing to be addressed. Pastor's shouldn't just be thrust into a church and left to fend for themselves, the district needs to support its pastors, especially the young/new ones who are still having their ministries shaped.

[Hans Deventer]

Another slant would be to ask how many of your districts have a formal mentoring program for young pastors? Follow-up, if you have formal mentoring program do you use it and how effective is it?

Dan, we (Netherlands District) have linked each young pastor, or in not young but just starting as a pastor, to a seasoned pastor.

And we are actively involved with the Eurasia Leadership Development Initiative, training young leaders, not just in isolated meetings, but also linking them with mentors.

Our district has a focus on LDI.

[Hans Deventer]

Perhaps another slant on Dan's question might be, how many Elders under the age of 40 are on any district committees... DAB, Studies, Credentials, Finance, Camp, NYI, NMI, SS, whatever? I was talking with a friend, and off the top of our heads, of all those positions, we came up with 2. One on NYI and one on Studies. There may be others, we just couldn't recall any.

We elected an elder who was 29 at the time of the election to the DAB in Marc. My current DS was below 40 when he was elected DS. I myself was elected district secretary when I was 29. Was elected to the church board of the Dutch Reformed Church I was a member of in those days when I was 23.

[Glenn Messer]

The direction here seems to be that of placing younger pastors in larger established churches. I agree that many younger pastors have the skill level to be effective in such positions. I also know that some (many?) older pastors do not. Here's the question that bugs me: Why is it that so very few of us have the ability to assume the leadership of a church -- any size, but particularly a smaller church -- and build it into a growing, vibrant, church. Why do the vast majority of us remain stagnant or show little growth over time? Also alarming to me, is the numerical decline in churches that were once large, strong churches that provided leadership by example on the district level. I have seen many like that who now struggle to keep the doors open. One other thing: My guess is that the vast majority of our new church plants are now "house churches" or focused on minority populations. Don't get me wrong. I am glad for both of those, but I wonder why we do not plant more new churches that are aimed at the "Anglo" community anymore? My guess is that most of the church closures in the U. S. are churches that were formerly regarded as mostly white churches.

I think that part of the answer lies in the economic challenges. (salary, housing, benefits, etc.) Economically, it is much more difficult to pastor a smaller church. Combine that with the other stressful issues of pastoring a small church and it can be overwhelming. I also think that the mindset today when someone is entering the ministry is different than it was 45 or 50 years ago; I think that part of that is because of the difference in education and educational investment. Of course, technology and culture also impact it greatly.

[Dennis M. Scott]

In the day when Church Properties Board was elected, at age 27, my name appeared on the ballot against a distinguished, capable and very experienced incumbent. The DA vote turned out to be a tie, and we had to vote again. Apparently, delegates voted for the young guy, and I was elected, although I had absolutely no experience to bring to the table. I attended meetings, and the other candidate was quickly appointed to fill a vacancy. His was pretty much the only meaningful voice on the board. Granted, it was for me a learning experience, but I went on to focus in other areas. Grateful for the opportunity.

[Kyle Borger]

I once attempted to get myself nominated to the church board as a teen so that we would have a voice. The teens even began doing a little bit of campaigning. This church had elections during a service with open nominations. During the process one of the retired pastors stood up and declared that all board members should be land owners. I still can't believe they went for that. Let's take a teen who is showing initiative and interest in the church and shut them down. Really? Don't we believe that a more mature teen could have something to offer? Regarding executiive sessions, how well do some of the more mature adults keep things to themselves?

I was in another church and our group of 30 somethings had been trying for years to get someone on the board. I once got left off the nominations because I didn't tithe by check or envelope. Each year we would get somebody nominated only to have them not get voted in.

I finally got appointed to a different committee by the pastor and eventually was voted the chairman of that committee which gave me a seat on the board by virtue of my position.

No wonder more pastors are going to in house nominations with no yes votes.

Of course many churches like the one I serve now simply have everyone who is eligible and willing to serve on the board and would love to have choices.

Not sure what my point is. Just rambling based on previous comments.

It would be unlikely to see a young pastor called to a big church. More likely that the young pastor started the church or took a small church big.

[Eric Frey]

Why is it that so very few of us have the ability to assume the leadership of a church -- any size, but particularly a smaller church -- and build it into a growing, vibrant, church. Why do the vast majority of us remain stagnant or show little growth over time?

I think this has alot to do with preparation. The way big churches and small churches operate and are lead are VERY different. At this point, all I can speak from is my personal experience. I have an undergrad degree in Youth Ministry and an MDiv. I can tell you that both taught ministry from a "large church" perspective. I am not sure this was intentional, but it was clear. Most of the practics profs were big church pastors (Dan Boone, David Busic, Wayne Sharpes, Bruce Petersen, et al). I was even told that if I had any interest in teaching practics then I need to pastor a large church because that is what schools want taught (by one of my professors). So the education is geared toward leadership in large churches. My training is similar. I grew up in a church 300+. During college I attended and did my internship at a church 700+. In seminary I attended and was on staff at a church 150+ but because it was in KC it was very different than the typical church its size. We had 5 on staff and a couple of the lay leaders were seminary grads. It operated almost identical to the church of 700 I attended in college. That is my education/training. Then out of seminary I took a church of 60. Almost nothing I learned of leadership and programming was applicable. None of my experience was applicable. I was completely unprepared for solo ministry in a small struggling church. I still have to work hard to not default to all my education/experience in big church leadership. I don't know if this helps answer your question or not, but this has been one of my bigger struggles in ministry and I think it might shed some light on your question.

I think that part of the answer lies in the economic challenges. (salary, housing, benefits, etc.) Economically, it is much more difficult to pastor a smaller church. Combine that with the other stressful issues of pastoring a small church and it can be overwhelming. I also think that the mindset today when someone is entering the ministry is different than it was 45 or 50 years ago; I think that part of that is because of the difference in education and educational investment. Of course, technology and culture also impact it greatly.

All of the above

[Dan Henderson]

A quick note on relative competencies. Most professions if have dealt with believe that because they are competent in their profession, they can also be competent in mine. There are competent administrators who are also competent doctors (who I work with daily) and preachers (who I care about most). However, preachers just like doctors are not taught to be administrators, nor are they even taught leadership skill sets. Both groups only have what they bring with them in those terms. They are spending all their academic time on their specialty. So, ecept for the very few (both Doctors and Clergy), we automatically promote them into leadership (primarily administrative in nature) and in some cases purely administrative positions.

My general observation is that a doctor who becomes an administrator (does not see patients) is no longer a doctor. My corrolary is that a preacher who does not fill a pulpit is no longer a preacher. Granted both groups need teachers from that profession. In practice you need a chief of the medical personnel or a chief of the theologians. In general neither are competent (unless they bring it with them) to handle the administrative tasks associated with the buisness aspect of thei professions.

This is diverted from the topic. So back to my original topic. An ordained Elder, regardless of age is fully qualified for their profession. That they do not have other skills necessary to run the church does not follow. The charge is to Preach the Word, not be CEO of the Church. Let your trustees take care of that. If you have eliminated the trustee designation from your board, maybe you should bring it back.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

The charge is to Preach the Word, not be CEO of the Church.

This resonates with me, as I spend all week in the business environment. I am working to keep the language and systems of business out my church language and perspective. There is useful experience there of course - I tap into it all the time to pastor. But, I try to do that with the vision of a shepherd, not a sales rep.

I deliver a sermon, but I am not going to think of my sermon as a 'deliverable'. It is a gift and a responsibility! Leading a church is NOT the same as leading a company. Adopting such language for the church is a big turn off for me, and I expect it is for a lot of people we are and might be ministering to.

[Ryan Scott]

Well, I regularly attend our district Pastor's meetings and am routinely the youngest one there (I turned 30 in December). There are occasionally some youth pastors who show up who are a few years younger than I am.

I wonder if the age discrepancies are more an issue of how much more we require for ordination. For those pastors retiring now, it was entirely possible to be ordained in the Church of the Nazarene as a teenager - thus giving some pastors a decade of ordained ministry by 27 or 28 years of age. Shoot we have a GS elected who was 28 before the age restrictions went into effect.

Now, it's rare for anyone to get a district license, even, before they're 18 years old. Most likely you'll be 23-25 before you're ordained, even on the fastest schedule.

No pastor with that level of maturity and education is going to be called to an even moderately large congregation (200+) before they're 30.

To really find a pastor like that, you'll likely have to look for a church plant in the midwest somewhere that grew really fast.

[Kevin Rector]

Perhaps another slant on Dan's question might be, how many Elders under the age of 40 are on any district committees... DAB, Studies, Credentials, Finance, Camp, NYI, NMI, SS, whatever? I was talking with a friend, and off the top of our heads, of all those positions, we came up with 2. One on NYI and one on Studies. There may be others, we just couldn't recall any.

I am under 40 (although I am getting close to 40 - YIKES) and am on the credentials board and was nominated to DAB last year. I'm pretty sure Rich Schmidt is on the DAB of his district (but I could be wrong about that).

[Billy Cox]

No pastor with that level of maturity and education is going to be called to an even moderately large congregation (200+) before they're 30.

To really find a pastor like that, you'll likely have to look for a church plant in the midwest somewhere that grew really fast.

I have a theory that the most attractive career track (for pastors with upwardly mobile ambitions) is to pastor a large church, by having grown it from zero or from sub-100. There is something to be said for pastoring a church where nobody can compare you to your predecessor.

This is in contrast to the career strategy where one etablishes a track record of improving a church and then moving on to the next project; progressively taking on larger assignments.

It seems to me that a young pastor of a large church will probably have led the church to that size since an existing large church wouldn't hire a young pastor.

[Michael Flowers]

It seems to me that a young pastor of a large church will probably have led the church to that size since an existing large church wouldn't hire a young pastor.

Something else to consider is that it isn't necessarily that all large churches wouldn't hire a young pastor, but more of the matter that DS's just don't/won't bring a young pastor's name before a large church because they want them to "prove themselves" first. If someone is called to pastor and has the widsom/maturity, then the age shouldn't matter, but it does. (this is not a knock against DS's, just a note of how things tend to be)

[David Morris]

Well, I regularly attend our district Pastor's meetings and am routinely the youngest one there (I turned 30 in December). There are occasionally some youth pastors who show up who are a few years younger than I am.

I wonder if the age discrepancies are more an issue of how much more we require for ordination. For those pastors retiring now, it was entirely possible to be ordained in the Church of the Nazarene as a teenager - thus giving some pastors a decade of ordained ministry by 27 or 28 years of age. Shoot we have a GS elected who was 28 before the age restrictions went into effect.

Now, it's rare for anyone to get a district license, even, before they're 18 years old. Most likely you'll be 23-25 before you're ordained, even on the fastest schedule.

No pastor with that level of maturity and education is going to be called to an even moderately large congregation (200+) before they're 30.

To really find a pastor like that, you'll likely have to look for a church plant in the midwest somewhere that grew really fast.

I had my first local license when I was 17, had my district license at 22, and was ordained when I was 28. I'd say that is closer to the norm these days.

Among our district advisory council (12 or so people) I am the only one under the age of 50 (am currently 29), and can only think of 2 or 3 pastors serving on district boards and committees that are under 50 as well.

[David Morris]

Steven Furtick (at age 26) started Elevation Church in Feb. of 2006 with 121 people at their launch service. Today, their services in 6 different locations see around 10,000 in attendance. Thousands more view Elevation services online each week.

Could a denominational church see this happen?

If this question needs to be cut into another thread, please do so.

[Larry Parsons]

What is largest Nazarene church, by Sunday morning attendance, led by a pastor under 30? Under 25?

This question is based on one of my hidden agendas? I'm gonna keep it hidden but a hint is 1 Tim 4:12

I know of a church that was running less than 30 on sunday morning and they had a larger membership than that but the member had stop coming. The church call a 21 year old kid to be there pastor and his wife was 19. He was a fire ball and a good preacher within year or two the church was running over 100 ever sunday. He left that church and took a church on another district running over 200 he was there for couple of year and decide to go into the evangrelist field drop out that and went back into pastoring but not a nazarene church. It a pentecostal church that runningover 300 he has been there for awhile and I feeling he will stay. So some young guy have the abilty to pastor large church. but not many.
Thanks
Larry

[Michael Flowers]

I know of a church that was running less than 30 on sunday morning and they had a larger membership than that but the member had stop coming. The church call a 21 year old kid to be there pastor and his wife was 19. He was a fire ball and a good preacher within year or two the church was running over 100 ever sunday. He left that church and took a church on another district running over 200 he was there for couple of year and decide to go into the evangrelist field drop out that and went back into pastoring but not a nazarene church. It a pentecostal church that runningover 300 he has been there for awhile and I feeling he will stay. So some young guy have the abilty to pastor large church. but not many.
Thanks
Larry

Honestly, I am of the opinion that it takes more ability to pastor a small church (30-100) than a church that is larger than 100. In such a church the pastor has to be able to do everything because volunteers are not always readily available. Yes, large churches have their own issues, but from my experiences growing up the larger churches usually had a much more specific pastoral role.

[Dan Henderson]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that it takes more ability to pastor a small church (30-100) than a church that is larger than 100. In such a church the pastor has to be able to do everything because volunteers are not always readily available. Yes, large churches have their own issues, but from my experiences growing up the larger churches usually had a much more specific pastoral role.

True, Its similar to the small business or proprietorship. One church expected my dad to be the janitor, the maint man, and the yard man. After all, he only worked on Sundays.

[Michael Flowers]

True, Its similar to the small business or proprietorship. One church expected my dad to be the janitor, the maint man, and the yard man. After all, he only worked on Sundays.

Yea, the yard work is the one thing I kind of wish we didn't hire out here, cause I really enjoy mowing the grass. But growing up, my dad/family did the mowing, cleaning, maintenance, snow removal, etc. There are definitely plenty of other tasks that are more important for the pastor to be doing (like interacting with the congregation).

[Larry Parsons]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that it takes more ability to pastor a small church (30-100) than a church that is larger than 100. In such a church the pastor has to be able to do everything because volunteers are not always readily available. Yes, large churches have their own issues, but from my experiences growing up the larger churches usually had a much more specific pastoral role.

I agree a pastor of a small church end up doing everything i remember being call to a small church that was runnning 45 the only question before they acepted us if i wore cowboy boots and if my wife play the piano. I guess they were looking for a piano player and did care what the pastor did. I remember one small we pastor where we need a sunday school teacher for certain age I went and borrow a teacher from another church she was with us for six month before she went to her home church.Some time pastor has to do things that large church doesn't have to do.
Thanks
Larry

[Billy Cox]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that it takes more ability to pastor a small church (30-100) than a church that is larger than 100.

Agreed, but in the sense that it takes far more skill to pilot a single engine plane at an altitude of 50 feet at low speed without running into anything, least of which the ground.

I think there is a time and a place where a small church is best suited to uniquely serve the community. In other times and places it is simply a monthly exercise in dodging insolvency in a crowded religious landscape.

[Rich Schmidt]

I am under 40 (although I am getting close to 40 - YIKES) and am on the credentials board and was nominated to DAB last year. I'm pretty sure Rich Schmidt is on the DAB of his district (but I could be wrong about that).

I used to be on the advisory board. Not anymore. I was elected 3 years ago when I was 34, served my two-year term, and then wasn't nominated again. I've served on our Ministerial Studies Board for years.

BTW, for those who didn't see it in the other thread, earlier today we elected a 42-year-old pastor to be our new DS.

We have several young pastors on our district. The DS got a few of them who started around the same time into a mentoring group with a more experienced pastor. Another handful of us who pastor church plants / restarts meet monthly, and our average age is probably in the 30's. The ones in their 20's, though, are pastoring brand new works in impoverished areas, so they're not what Dan's looking for.

BTW, since it came up earlier, I'm not sure when I got my first local license, but it was probably around my freshman year of college, since that's when I was called to pastoral ministry. So I probably got my first district license in 1994 at age 19, and I was ordained in 2002 or 2003 (can't remember just now), when I was 27-28. I could have been ordained earlier, but I went to seminary instead of accepting a call to pastor a tiny little (now closed) church.

Anyway, our church plant was running over 200 people within a few years, before I turned 30. Then it declined pretty rapidly due to my learning some leadership lessons the hard way, and has hovered around 100 ever since. For the past 3-4 years, we've been growing slowly but steadily, thanks be to God. But I'm 37, so I'm outside of Dan's sample group.

[Rich Schmidt]

Agreed, but in the sense that it takes far more skill to pilot a single engine plane at an altitude of 50 feet at low speed without running into anything, least of which the ground.

I like that image. Almost anybody can take the controls of a 747 mid-flight and cruise along for a while, especially with a good co-pilot, etc. Very few can pilot a single-engine plan at 50 feet.

[Dan Henderson]

The relatively higher level of education prior entering the work-force is going to push that arbitrary age that I was asking about by 2-6 years. I routinely, though the number is not large, witness teens confirming their call to the ministry at around 15 or 16. Many begin to receive an urging earlier. Those ones who are confirming those calls almost always have an adult nurturing that process. I wonder how, many we lose because they don't have an adult or adult helping them to explore and confirm (or dis-confirm) their call to ministry. I put dis-confirm in parens, but how many times do we automatically assume that a stated call to full-time ministry, really is the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Given what I stated earlier, I think that evidence of a good on-purpose mentoring initiatives should result in at least a few ministers receiving ordination about the time they graduate with their Bachelors in Religion. It has only been relatively recent initiative that districts and our colleges have coordinated so that graduating with a Bachelors in Religion ensures all academic requirements for ordination are fulfulled. This was not always the case even 10 years ago. I sometimes think that ordinatiion or some type of experience should be required before a student is accepted into an advanced program but then dismiss the thought because I know that path is not for everyone. Masters are becoming somewhat of a norm, but I think that to some degree a doctorate implies experience as well as education. Some part of me wishes for that perception to be and remain a reality.

Many times we see our youth (those 40 and below) as our hope for the future. I see them as our hope right now. I value the wisdom of my peers and those who are older, yet I see no reason for us to be dashing our young on the rocks while people my age expect to work in relatively comfortable positions.

This thread has been encouraging for me. I am seeing both evidence of established processes as well as the recognition by others as to its need. The full-time minister is both a profession and a vocation and thus needs a solid renewal process (young replacing old) in the form of good education, mentoring, internships, and apprenticeships. We as a denomination seem to be collectively recognizing that need and are beginning to act on it. That is indeed a good sign.

[Rich Schmidt]

Given what I stated earlier, I think that evidence of a good on-purpose mentoring initiatives should result in at least a few ministers receiving ordination about the time they graduate with their Bachelors in Religion.

It would be tricky for someone to meet the experience requirements while also going to school, I would think. To be eligible for ordination, a district licensed minister must have served full-time as an assigned minister for at least 3 consecutive years. If part-time, then longer.

[Dan Henderson]

It would be tricky for someone to meet the experience requirements while also going to school, I would think. To be eligible for ordination, a district licensed minister must have served full-time as an assigned minister for at least 3 consecutive years. If part-time, then longer.

Consecutive is no longer a requirement (if it ever really was). You might be confusing experience with the requirement to hold a district license for 3 consecutive years and to be assigned. I think that might have been a myth perpetuated by a group that wanted to restrict the flow of new ordinands. Consecutive "experience" is not a requirement. Additionally, there is a provision for part-time to count also (4 years as an unwritten rule that was written at one time). Its entirely possible. Even in its most strict interpretation, it should be easy to move a student from licensing to ordination within 4 years. The reason its hard is because we collectively say "May God be with you in your Pursuits" and conveniently forget that we have a duty as God's family to help our family members in their pursuits. You may say "God will make a way", I say, He has. We are the way to ordination in the Church of the Nazarene. We are collectively weak in this area and we can do much better. Those who actually have mentoring and placement programs can do better and those who don't need to get moving.

Here are the manual quotes:

One who is called of God to this ministry who currently holds a district license, and who has at one time held a license for not less than three consecutive years and recommended for renewal of district license by the church board of the local church in which he or she holds membership or by the District Advisory Board...

To be eligible for election, the candidate must have been an assigned minister for not less than three consecutive years, and the candidate must currently be serving in an assigned ministry. In the case of part-time assignment, it should be understood that there should be an extension of the consecutive years of in-service time, depending on their level of involvement in local church ministry, and that their testimony and service demonstrate that their call to ministry is primary to all other pursuits.

[Rich Schmidt]

Consecutive is no longer a requirement (if it ever really was). You might be confusing experience with the requirement to hold a district license for 3 consecutive years and to be assigned.

Are you sure about that?

Here are the manual quotes:
...

To be eligible for election, the candidate must have been an assigned minister for not less than three consecutive years, and the candidate must currently be serving in an assigned ministry.

[Ryan Scott]

You have to have been an assigned minister for three consecutive years at some point, even if they aren't directly previous to the assignment you currently hold.

Some districts interpret it in different ways, though.

It used to be that the three consecutive years had to be the three years immediately prior to ordination; that is no longer the case.