Rocky Mountain District selecting New DS in June.

[Dennis M. Scott]

So, the next stage has begun. My senior pastor forwarded to me the profile as decided by our taskforce. It said to share it with any interested parties, so here it is:

Just as I thought: your list is way shorter than some of the lists I've seen recently for a new pastor!

[Hans Deventer]

Hey, that sounds just like me!

Just kidding.

As Leonard Sweet posted on his FB page the other day:

Methodist Bishop Gerald Kennedy loved to tell the story of a Roman Catholic Archbishop who told of a certain bishop who died and went to hell. This, in itself, was not unbelievable. But he said the bishop was there for three months before he realized there had been any change in his situation. Life is tough for everybody nowadays, and after general conference will be even tougher.

[Lucas Finch]

So Lucas.....without naming anyone specifically, do we have anyone currently on our district who you think fits this profile? Does the other unmentioned person off the district fit this profile in your opinion?

I do, indeed, think that we have one or two on district pastors who can fit into the profile, along with the one I mentioned who is now off district. The email that the profile was sent out in requested people email names to the taskforce chair, so I'll probably send her the name of the latter. I wouldn't be surprised if others send her the same name. Whether or not that person is willing to accept a nomination after having so recently taken on a new church is another question.

[Lucas Finch]

So, a week from tomorrow is our District Assembly on the Rocky Mountain District. (A week from today is our NMI Convention). I have not heard if there have been any developments or names selected by the taskforce. Keep us in your prayers as we go through this process! I'll post updates as they take place and when they are permitted/appropriate. (I run all of the audio/video/media for our conventions/Assembly, too. I have it down to a pretty smooth running process, but I always appreciate additional prayer in this regard. Sometimes technology has a mind of its own.)

[Jim Franklin]

Praying here for the great Rocky Mountain District. A few years back the Boise Five Mile Church went to Havre to upgrade some of their facilities and Pastor Powell has visited that church on occasion when he has brought his daughter to NNU. We recently got word that he was ailing and I wondered how his health is.

[Lucas Finch]

Praying here for the great Rocky Mountain District. A few years back the Boise Five Mile Church went to Havre to upgrade some of their facilities and Pastor Powell has visited that church on occasion when he has brought his daughter to NNU. We recently got word that he was ailing and I wondered how his health is.

Thanks! I appreciate it!

I am not sure how Pastor Powell is. I probably have not seen him since last assembly. As an associate, I am not always included in information that the district office sends out to the lead pastors, so I usually do not hear about health issues unless it is someone that I connect with regularly. I will be praying, though, since you mentioned it.

[Kyle Borger]

Thanks! I appreciate it!

I am not sure how Pastor Powell is. I probably have not seen him since last assembly. As an associate, I am not always included in information that the district office sends out to the lead pastors, so I usually do not hear about health issues unless it is someone that I connect with regularly. I will be praying, though, since you mentioned it.

Here is what we got from the current DS Larry Coen on June 13th.

Please pray for Pastor John Powell, our Pastor in Havre. He was taken to the hospital in Havre Sunday night with chest pains. They subsequently transported him to the Great Falls Hospital where the found he had two main arteries nearly blocked. So, they implanted two stints in the two bad arteries and he may go home tomorrow. Amazing! We thank the Lord for the built-in warning systems he created in us. Please pray for a speedy recovery and life back to normal for John. And, pray for Paula, his wife. This sort of thing is stressful, to say the least.

[Kyle Borger]

Tomorrow is the start of the Rocky Mountain District Assembly. The NMI convention will be first with Howie Shute speaking. We had him speak at our church a couple of weeks ago and his story is very inspiring. I have attached what I have in terms of reports for the assembly for those of you who actually like reading such things! Depending on how the DS election goes I will report pertinent information. If a pastor is nominated I will wait until the election is finished before reporting. No sense getting a church worked up if it doesn't happen.

Those of us on the Rocky Mountain District covet your prayers as we seek the next person God has chosen to lead our district.

Attachment 3867

[Craig Laughlin]

Praying for you all. I hope and pray you do as well at electing a DS as WAPAC did. Right person, right time, right place.

[John Reilly]

Tomorrow is the start of the Rocky Mountain District Assembly. The NMI convention will be first with Howie Shute speaking. We had him speak at our church a couple of weeks ago and his story is very inspiring. I have attached what I have in terms of reports for the assembly for those of you who actually like reading such things! Depending on how the DS election goes I will report pertinent information. If a pastor is nominated I will wait until the election is finished before reporting. No sense getting a church worked up if it doesn't happen.

Those of us on the Rocky Mountain District covet your prayers as we seek the next person God has chosen to lead our district.

Attachment 3867

Missionaries Howie and Bev Shute spoke in Keene, NH not too long ago and we really enjoyed them. I enjoy hosting missionaries in my home. We had great conversations. You will enjoy them. Probably the green hills of NH will be foremost on their minds as they visit the Rocky Mountains.

[Lucas Finch]

Our NMI Convention is over. Now time for Assembly!

I know a little new information. Our task force has decided on one name to offer as the D.S. nominee. I have been told that nominations will not be accepted from the floor, though names can be written in on the ballot.

The fun begins tomorrow morning!

[Dan Henderson]

our nmi convention is over. Now time for assembly!

The fun begins tomorrow morning!

Nazarenes .... Assemble!

[Bud Pugh]

Our NMI Convention is over. Now time for Assembly!

I know a little new information. Our task force has decided on one name to offer as the D.S. nominee. I have been told that nominations will not be accepted from the floor, though names can be written in on the ballot.

The fun begins tomorrow morning!

Lucas,

There are never nominations that come from the floor. All DS nominations come via being written on the first (nominating) ballot. This is true even in the "new world" that we are in where DABs work to bring one name forward. It seems we are not quite ready to abandon the long-practiced DS nominating/electing process even though it is not quite the horse race it once was (the recommended nominee is likely to get enough votes pretty early on, if not on the first ballot).

Bud

[Lucas Finch]

Lucas,

There are never nominations that come from the floor. All DS nominations come via being written on the first (nominating) ballot. This is true even in the "new world" that we are in where DABs work to bring one name forward. It seems we are not quite ready to abandon the long-practiced DS nominating/electing process even though it is not quite the horse race it once was (the recommended nominee is likely to get enough votes pretty early on, if not on the first ballot).

Bud

It's a non-issue for me. I do not really care. But I know that others do. Today in just the NMI voting there were procedural questions raised that are usually non-issues. So it could be fun tomorrow!

[Dan Henderson]

That's a foul. There should be more than one name or none at all.

[Jon Twitchell]

That's a foul. There should be more than one name or none at all.

There will be as many names as are listed on the nominating ballot.
The nominating ballot is an open ballot, so any name can be written down.

[Dan Henderson]

There will be as many names as are listed on the nominating ballot.
The nominating ballot is an open ballot, so any name can be written down.

I'm not questioning the open ballot concept, Jon. I'm questioning the pre-endorsement of a single candidate. That's where I called foul (or shenanigans if you prefer)

[Lucas Finch]

I'm not questioning the open ballot concept, Jon. I'm questioning the pre-endorsement of a single candidate. That's where I called foul (or shenanigans if you prefer)

I'm not sure if I like it or not, but the truth is that the intent to offer one name has been communicated to us for several months. I just hadn't heard until tonight that they had settled on one name.

It was explained to me that they are trying to make it be less of an election and more like the hiring of a pastor. When a local church votes for a pastor, they do not choose from several at once. They vote for one at a time. So I guess that makes sense. Except if we do not choose to accept the recommendation, it's not like we're gathering weekly and have the opportunity of accessing others over a period of time.

[Dan Henderson]

I'm not sure if I like it or not, but the truth is that the intent to offer one name has been communicated to us for several months. I just hadn't heard until tonight that they had settled on one name.

It was explained to me that they are trying to make it be less of an election and more like the hiring of a pastor. When a local church votes for a pastor, they do not choose from several at once. They vote for one at a time. So I guess that makes sense. Except if we do not choose to accept the recommendation, it's not like we're gathering weekly and have the opportunity of accessing others over a period of time.

I posted on DS stumping I observed in the 70s where men were walking around the voting area telling people how to vote. A local pastor was gaining steadily in the ballots. The men were walking around and telling people that it was not appropriate to vote for a pastor on the district. Of course, the delegate would then ask "Who should I vote for? Which then gave the men the opportunity to "suggest" an appropriate candidate.

This looks like a more refined process of my own personal experience. It looks bad ... it smells bad ... It indicates to me a leadership attitude that indicates that they think the delegates are either not capable, or don't care to come up with their own candidates.

Again, This is how a small group of people can control a large organization. All the work is done in committee by non-elected people and the delegation just rubber-stamps the committees work. And that's how you go from democracy to oligarchy in one easy step --- apathy ... oh, wait, we are talking about the CoTN not countries ... well, it still applies.

[Ryan Scott]

This looks like a more refined process of my own personal experience. It looks bad ... it smells bad ... It indicates to me a leadership attitude that indicates that they think the delegates are either not capable, or don't care to come up with their own candidates.

I don't know about this district in particular, but in some, the assembly has asked the DAB to do a search and recommend a name because the delegates didn't feel capable of picking qualified candidates.

My observation has been that on some districts, few of the delegates know anyone outside the district (and many know few on the district). I'm not sure if endorsing one name makes sense, but certainly having a search committee bringing name(s) back the assembly makes sense.

You can't say you haven't seen an on-district pastor get elected and be in way over their head.

I've also noticed that there's still plenty of districts whose assemblies would never want to operate this way; they don't.

[Mike Schutz]

This is how a small group of people can control a large organization. All the work is done in committee by non-elected people and the delegation just rubber-stamps the committees work. And that's how you go from democracy to oligarchy in one easy step --- apathy ... oh, wait, we are talking about the CoTN not countries ... well, it still applies.

Dan, I have no reason to either defend or argue in opposition with the procedure for selecting a DS, but your comment here confuses me. How does this represent the process in the CotN, when an elected committee - the DAB - receives suggestions from members of the district, does due diligence, and brings a name to the assembly, that the elected delegates can not only accept or reject, but can also add names to the process?

[Dan Henderson]

You can't say you haven't seen an on-district pastor get elected and be in way over their head.
.

Well I'm radical in my thinking anyway, I think that all district positions, including DS should be run ad-hoc by on-district people. You-all lost me at "Assistant District Superintentent"

I highlighed the one sentance because I didn't get it, can you restate?

[Dan Henderson]

Dan, I have no reason to either defend or argue in opposition with the procedure for selecting a DS, but your comment here confuses me. How does this represent the process in the CotN, when an elected committee - the DAB - receives suggestions from members of the district, does due diligence, and brings a name to the assembly, that the elected delegates can not only accept or reject, but can also add names to the process?

This process (the Nazarene Choo-Choo) has progressed to the point that those positions that are elected are self-regenerating. That is, the majority of votes I have observed, including elections,have been rubber-stamp votes. Making only one suggestion to the electing body violates the intent of our election process. To summarize, only incumbants can be on a ballot by themselves for an up or down vote. We have gotten around this by placing a blank line or two underneath the nominees name, thus we have violated the intent of the process. Additionally elected boards have become self-regenerating by serving as their own nominating committee.

I get that there are many times that you can only find one/willing and qualified candidate for a ballot (and thus the now abused blank line). I further submit this is not the case for DS. I do not accept that a nominating committee, using due dilligence, cannot come up with at least two qualified, available, and willing candidates for DS.

[Craig Laughlin]

I've said this before but that very process worked great on WAPAC. We choose someone we would not otherwise have considered and it turned out to be a great choice. Methods come and go.

We asked our elected leaders (DAB) to give us some leadership. It was an open ballet but most folks choose to follower our leaders, simple as that. Not sure why having little or no leadership during the election is better.

[Dan Henderson]

I like your tag line Craig - By the way.

[Lucas Finch]

Dan, I have no reason to either defend or argue in opposition with the procedure for selecting a DS, but your comment here confuses me. How does this represent the process in the CotN, when an elected committee - the DAB - receives suggestions from members of the district, does due diligence, and brings a name to the assembly, that the elected delegates can not only accept or reject, but can also add names to the process?

Yeah, this is the basic process that we have gone through. The task force received names from the members of the district, and then they went through the process of assessing those individuals to see if they matched the profile determined by the members of the district and were willing to serve in the role. I think that I am comfortable with the process.

[David Snodgrass]

Everyone else seems to be having a discussion about the selection of their DS and someone suggested we start our own, so here it goes. Lucas and I appear to be the only ones to regularly use this forum from our district, but perhaps others will join. If you are not from our district but have suggestions they will be welcomed. I doubt that Lucas or I will have the ability to actually make much of an impact on the process in selecting a DS, but perhaps this discussion will help in some small way.

Our district currently has 38 churches. The district consists of all of Montana & Wyoming. It is almost 1,000 miles from the two churches that are the farthest apart. The average church attendance is most likely under 100. The largest church might be near 300. There are about 7 churches that have a staff, although a couple have co-pastors. Many of our pastor's are bi-vocational.

Zones to include geographically close churches would most likely have to be over 200 miles in diameter just to include more than 3 churches. Some zones would actually have to be over 400 miles in diameter to include at least 3 churches.

Most of our district meetings take place in Billings and many of our churches are 500 to 600 miles from the District center.

We also own a district center which currently houses a church plant. Our denominational budget requirements have been around 20% and this has been a point of discussion.

Considering the geographical nature of the district, the average size and make up of our churches, along with our financial difficulties who do you think our DS should look like? What qualities or experiences should they have?

Is there any recent news on this?

[Michael Flowers]

I suspect we will have to wait a little while longer since it isn't quite 9:00 in Wyoming/Montana yet.

[Lucas Finch]

Just finished up the NNU report. dS report is next, and then the vote.

[Lucas Finch]

Just finished up the NNU report. dS report is next, and then the vote.

After some introductions and business items . . .

[Ryan Scott]

Well I'm radical in my thinking anyway, I think that all district positions, including DS should be run ad-hoc by on-district people. You-all lost me at "Assistant District Superintentent"

I highlighed the one sentance because I didn't get it, can you restate?

I'm saying that on occasion, the district is so committed to picking someone they know as DS that they choose a local pastor who doesn't have the skills or vision to do the job well. They don't know how to be an administrator or visionary necessary to make the DS position one of vitality. Often the right leader isn't present on the district.

[Billy Cox]

Again, This is how a small group of people can control a large organization. All the work is done in committee by non-elected people and the delegation just rubber-stamps the committees work. And that's how you go from democracy to oligarchy in one easy step --- apathy ... oh, wait, we are talking about the CoTN not countries ... well, it still applies.

This presumes that we were democratic to start with.

[Billy Cox]

Dan, I have no reason to either defend or argue in opposition with the procedure for selecting a DS, but your comment here confuses me. How does this represent the process in the CotN, when an elected committee - the DAB - receives suggestions from members of the district, does due diligence, and brings a name to the assembly, that the elected delegates can not only accept or reject, but can also add names to the process?

Mike, let's say that a numeric majority within the DAB decided to throw their influence behind a particular candidate. Would they even have to pretend to consider other nominations?

Yes, the assembly still has to rubberstamp the candidate, but that's not so hard to manufacture is it? One would have to simply 'pass the word' to a few well-connected pastors and let the 'news' spread among those in the know.

Let's be real. If any given DAB wanted to pre-anoint the next DS months prior to the DA, there is not much preventing them from doing so.

[Mike Schutz]

Mike, let's say that a numeric majority within the DAB decided to throw their influence behind a particular candidate. Would they even have to pretend to consider other nominations?

Yes, the assembly still has to rubberstamp the candidate, but that's not so hard to manufacture is it? One would have to simply 'pass the word' to a few well-connected pastors and let the 'news' spread among those in the know.

Let's be real. If any given DAB wanted to pre-anoint the next DS months prior to the DA, there is not much preventing them from doing so.

I can be as cynical as the next guy- as long as the next guy isn't Billy or Dan.

Guess I should change my name to Pollyanna.

[Billy Cox]

I've said this before but that very process worked great on WAPAC. We choose someone we would not otherwise have considered and it turned out to be a great choice. Methods come and go.

We asked our elected leaders (DAB) to give us some leadership. It was an open ballet but most folks choose to follower our leaders, simple as that. Not sure why having little or no leadership during the election is better.

Craig, I'm enough of a realist to acknowledge that pre-ordained, backroom elections are a necessary reality when a substantial number of the delegates are uninformed about the nominated candidates and know almost nothing about the business of the district.

The most efficient way to run an election at DA would be to send the mostly clueless lay delegates to lunch and let the pastors conduct all the business and choose their new boss...but we have appearances to keep up. It's the keeping up appearances bit that I have zero appreciation for.

[Dan Henderson]

I can be as cynical as the next guy- as long as the next guy isn't Billy or Dan.

Guess I should change my name to Pollyanna.

Thanks Mike, at least I know my standing with you. That's a plus. Thanks for not quibbling.

[Ryan Scott]

Let's be real. If any given DAB wanted to pre-anoint the next DS months prior to the DA, there is not much preventing them from doing so.

That is definitely true on some districts. It's not true for all of them. I don't think it's true for your district and I know it's not true for Mike's.

[Lucas Finch]

The recommendation has been made, and ballots are about to be passed. I will not actually disclose names until either it is made public elsewhere or I am certain that family and friends have been informed.

[Billy Cox]

After some introductions and business items . . .

Lucas, I don't recall whether you are one of those people who believe in letting news trickle out via official channels or whether you will share the results of the election when you have it.

Wow, I sound like someone who cares. Maybe I should eat something.

[Craig Laughlin]

Craig, I'm enough of a realist to acknowledge that pre-ordained, backroom elections are a necessary reality when a substantial number of the delegates are uninformed about the nominated candidates and know almost nothing about the business of the district.

The most efficient way to run an election at DA would be to send the mostly clueless lay delegates to lunch and let the pastors conduct all the business and choose their new boss...but we have appearances to keep up. It's the keeping up appearances bit that I have zero appreciation for.

I actually think this process is less open to inappropriate influences. No system is perfect but Dan gave us a pretty good example of folks "working" the assembly to get people to vote the way they want. I've only been close enough to know this on three districts so my perspective may not be accurate but in my case the DAB was made up of very strong people not likely to be bullied into anything. The pastors were often from larger churches and the Lay people were often very successful and given to being opinionated. In our case and it sounds like the same is true in this case they laid out a set of qualifications and then a system to follow before they got to names. Granted it isn't perfect but it seems to be less vulnerable to outside influences than no direction at all.

Beside on WAPAC we tried a no direction election the year before and could not elect someone willing to serve. The person who was elected and the one almost elected were both from our district. We needed to look outside our district and it is extremely hard to do that in an election without some sort of direction. Even a district as well informed as KC would have had a hard time. At least the last two DS from KC came from off the district. (I think the one before Keith Wright as well but I'm not sure)