Testimony Intimidation

[Susan Unger]

I'm curious, is there ever a time in which you've intimidated others by your testimony? Or, the opposite, a time in which you've been intimidated by another's testimony? Or felt like your testimony isn't good enough?

I ask because lately in my classes and with a few others it seems as if my testimony of God's saving and keeping grace isn't up to others' standards. I was baptized as an infant, have never known a time in which I didn't believe in Jesus, surrendered everything to God at a young age EONS ago and have never seen a reason to stray* so my testimony is really of God's faithfulness. But lately, I have gotten the impression that there's something wrong with this, as in either "I must be hiding some sin cuz everyone strays at some point" or "you can't really be saved if you can't remember it" or "the grace that God gives to sinners is more special than the grace God gives to keep one faithful."

As I type this, I know these lines sound silly, but I really do feel like I have been around people the last few months who believe this and I am wondering if anyone else gets this or if it is just me?

Interestingly, when I discussed this with someone today he said that he encountered in his life that someone outright did not like his testimony and told him so. Apparently, his testimony of God's faithfulness made the other person feel intimidated.

[Greg Farra]

Don't let them get to you. There is not a one-size-fits-all for faith in Christ and testifing to his ways. You can be saved if you don't 'remember' it, because we believe in previenient grace in baptism. I would say at some point you probably would have made some sort of profession of faith, perhaps at confirmation or some other moment.
On a side note, we were talking about the often heard statement that baptism is a public proclamation or testimony of w=hat God has done for you. I can't ever remember baptism being about proclaiming your faith to the world in the Bible, but perhaps I missed it.

[Susan Unger]

* I forgot to explain about the asterisk. There was one time where for 2 or 3 days in which I did have issues of faithfulness. Gina, Dana and Marg will love this - when I was in 6th grade, I had a test the next day but heard that there was a possibiity of a snow day. So, I prayed REAL HARD for a snow day so that I could miss the test. Not a snowflake came down. So, I decided that there must not be a God if my prayers for snow got me no where but a D on the math test. After a few days I got over it and went back to believing in God.

[Dwayne Petry]

My testimony is just the opposite. I did not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior until I was 32 years old. As stated on several occasions on NazNet, my life was a wreck until the Master Potter remolded the vessel. Because I could not live the life I know I should have (I was raised in the CotN by Christian parents), I marvel at the testimony of people such as yourself. That God could 'keep" you from straying into life wrecking sin, is a miracle to me.

I say "Praise God" that He can "keep" His children from the tangled life of sin. Your's is a testimony of obedience, something we all need to hear more about!

You have a GREAT testimony! PRAISE GOD! PRAISE GOD! PRAISE GOD!

[John Reilly]

Susan, be affirmed that your testimony is of God's grace at work in you. Perhaps there are some Christians who stereotype how it should be but we need to be accepting of each other and the uniqueness of God's saving grace at work in each of us. We also need not be intimidated by God's work in others. We could be jealous of Paul's unique encounter with God or the deliverance of Elijah. So your encounter with God and your ongoing journey with Jesus is unique to you and precious. May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you as you walk with Him.

[Gene Tatsch]

Yes. As a child I was emotionally whipsawed by various speakers/evangelists who did what they could to "get me" even as I tried to follow God.
So at one point as a teen, I sat and contracted with God that since He had me, I'd ignore any external attempts to manipulate me, that if He had any issues He'd let me know. And I (conceptually) signed the blank check to that effect.
Since then, I've experienced many "litmus" tests that I do not experience and I listen for the Father to see if it aligns with His view or not.
And some few folks have tried to intimidate me with their "testimony" - which sure put a strain on our relationship!

[Bill Morrison]

Susan: Do focus on the reality and beautiful truth of God's faithfulness in your life. You aren't alone in your feelings. I recall a time when another MNU faculty member and I were discussing the frequent testimonies we heard in church and religious broadcasting of people delivered from drugs, promiscuity, etc. (I believe we had just heard a guy talk in chapel that had served time for murder). Although we were and are thankful that God can (sometimes) reach and deliver even those folk, we were a little distressed at the message it might be sending to our students who had at worst mouthed off to their parents or had an evil thought but who thankfully realized their sin condition and their need for a Saviour and came to Him early in life. We concluded it is far better to have that testimony because you don't have the messy results of certain sins to live and deal with the rest of your life. God can gloriously forgive one who has murdered, commited adultery, been a drug dealer and so on, but the mental and physical results and effects of those sins can linger on even after forgiveness has happened (and not just to the converted one but especially for the murder victim and his family or the ones to whom drugs were sold).

BILL

[Jim Chabot]

Susan, your testimony is exactly that, it is yours. No comparisons are necessary, no one has a testimony that is any more or any less special that yours is.

Each of us travels a different and totally unique path. Each one of us is special to our Father and He interacts with us individually, no two the same.

When I hear your testimony and think of mine with it's ups and downs, doubts and fears, I am reminded that some are great examples of how to live, while the rest of us are sometimes adequate warning as to what not to do. Glad to hear that yours is one of good example!

[Greg Farra]

I've done things I will never share in public. I would gladly trade Susan's testimony for mine, but it does not work that way. I have shared some things, but I keep it pretty general. I don't like going into excruciating detail about my past. I know some do, and I'm not judging them for it, as it can be powerful. But it's not for me.

[Bud Pugh]

If you ever get a chance to read Bob Stromberg's testimony story in Why Geese Fly Farther Than Eagles, take it. He describes a similar struggle and his humorous way of walking through it.

Suffice to say, Susan, that you are not alone and your testimony is no less real or significant than those that seem to be more temporally spectacular.

[Gina Stevenson]

I've done things I will never share in public. I would gladly trade Susan's testimony for mine, but it does not work that way. I have shared some things, but I keep it pretty general. I don't like going into excruciating detail about my past. I know some do, and I'm not judging them for it, as it can be powerful. But it's not for me.

Yes, that is how my husband felt about his past ... didn't want to get into it much. But tbis one place came along who uses such testimonies to encourage others that they were/are not beyond hope, he agreed to have a video session with them, and related some details, after all.

[Kyle Borger]

My testimony is similar to yours. In my Spirituaal Formation class the question was asked regarding when you came to understand that God was God. My answer was that there was never a time in my life when I wasn't trying to serve God. I can't remember a time when God wasn't in my life. I prayed for Jesus to enter my heart not because I wasn't serving him but because someone told me I wasn't saved if I didn't. I am an example of the saving grace of community. I was born into the church and my every memory is of serving God. This doesn't mean that I was born void of a sinful nature. Temptation has certainly come my way and I have sinned a time or two, but my desire has always been to serve God. There have been transformational moments in my life as God has exposed new understandings or areas of my life I thought were surrendered but weren't.

There was a time in a district interview where I shared my story of sanctification. It was essentiantially my journey which at that time did not include a crisis moment. I was promptly told that I had no idea what sanctification was and told a mentor would be assigned to me to set me straight. They never did contact me. The next year I quoted the oldest book on sanctification I could find and they were satisfied. I left feeling like my personal experience was not valid.

[Susan Unger]

I recall a time when another MNU faculty member and I were discussing the frequent testimonies we heard in church and religious broadcasting of people delivered from drugs, promiscuity, etc. (I believe we had just heard a guy talk in chapel that had served time for murder). Although we were and are thankful that God can (sometimes) reach and deliver even those folk, we were a little distressed at the message it might be sending to our students who had at worst mouthed off to their parents or had an evil thought but who thankfully realized their sin condition and their need for a Saviour and came to Him early in life.
BILL

Without going into details because Naznet is public, I would say this best describes where I am coming from. Hypothetically, I would be one of those students who sat in chapel hearing glorious testimonies of God saving person after person from a life of horrible sin...beliving each was wonderful but wishing when God's testimony of keeping grace was going to get time on the radio, chapel, news and get the applause, too. And when mentioning this aloud the person sitting next to me saying "there is no way that you can say that. You're human so you must have sinned. You probably just now sinned by saying what you did. In fact, since you are human, I just know that you've got plenty of hidden sins in your closet." And then in this hypothetical scenario, my friend has similar thoughts expressed aloud - that God's keeping grace needs needs testimony time but has a person tell him "you're only saying that because you think you are holier than me. You are trying to rub it in that I didn't get saved until a few years ago. I don't want to be around anyone as prideful as you." Then picture both of us sitting there confused...

I guess I just need to vent as well as to hear others' thoughts on this. Cuz this is really annoying. I have appreciated everyone's comments. Thanks!

[Susan Unger]

I've done things I will never share in public. I would gladly trade Susan's testimony for mine, but it does not work that way. I have shared some things, but I keep it pretty general. I don't like going into excruciating detail about my past. I know some do, and I'm not judging them for it, as it can be powerful. But it's not for me.

I think this is part of the issue with some of the folks I am dealing with. They either enjoy telling their testimony a lot [with many details] or else haven't forgiven themselves yet so dwell on those details. My dad is like you. He left all that when he got saved and sees zero reason to ever mention stuff again. When we had testimony time on Sunday nights, he was always first to stand and talk about God's keeping grace. I would only have ever heard of one detail from the preChristian day because I either overheard mom mention something or else we were visiting his family. But his emphasis on keeping grace I believe is why I am the way that I am today - have really only heard from my parents the idea of God's keeping grace.

[Susan Unger]

My testimony is similar to yours. In my Spirituaal Formation class the question was asked regarding when you came to understand that God was God. My answer was that there was never a time in my life when I wasn't trying to serve God. I can't remember a time when God wasn't in my life. I prayed for Jesus to enter my heart not because I wasn't serving him but because someone told me I wasn't saved if I didn't. I am an example of the saving grace of community. I was born into the church and my every memory is of serving God. This doesn't mean that I was born void of a sinful nature. Temptation has certainly come my way and I have sinned a time or two, but my desire has always been to serve God. There have been transformational moments in my life as God has exposed new understandings or areas of my life I thought were surrendered but weren't.

There was a time in a district interview where I shared my story of sanctification. It was essentiantially my journey which at that time did not include a crisis moment. I was promptly told that I had no idea what sanctification was and told a mentor would be assigned to me to set me straight. They never did contact me. The next year I quoted the oldest book on sanctification I could find and they were satisfied. I left feeling like my personal experience was not valid.

Kyle, YES YES!!!! This is what I am talking about.

[Susan Unger]

This hits the spot - "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 24-25

[Scott Moseley]

I gave testimony in small Philippine church that was mostly made up of new believers. They were well conditioned to many great testimonies of drug users and folks with wrecked lives coming to a saving grace in Christ. I simply shared what strong bond of love Christ has woven into the fabric of our family and how that my Great grandmother (the first believer in the family) used to spend hours in a private cellar praying for her future generations of descendants and their marriages. I testified that their obedience now surely saves them now, but also will bless entire generation after generation. That they can shape their family into Christian family doing Gods will.

The pastor and his wife on hand said that was the most powerful testimony that the Church had heard.
I never had before then thought I had a "powerful" testimony as well as growing up in Christian family.

[Jim Chabot]

Susan; you have used the term "keeping grace" a few times now and you have given me a fresh perspective on it, thanks!

A couple of weeks ago the theme from ashes to fire was "I am the vine", and since there aren't an abundance of grapevine songs, my mind went to "keeping grace" as the theme for the music. As a vine keeps and nourishes it's offshoots and grafts. My thoughts went to how his grace keeps us through the tough times, I began with "Redeemed" and grafted it into the provided song of "Your Throne" which didn't appear to be thematically correct, then we went to "Leaning on The Everlasting Arms", we ended with the story of Horatio Spafford and "It is Well." I was looking for a progression from the joy of redemption through trust and then his hedge of protection when times get really tough.

Kind of standard fare that would go along with the "bad boy" testimonies and stories that are so common. I'm seeing now that we need his "keeping grace" not just to keep us safe in times of trouble, rather we need it all the time. Thanks for showing me this.

[Dennis M. Scott]

God knows and supplies exactly what each of us needs. There is no reason to make our testimony sound like someone else's. Frankly, I like your dad's approach: too many times people almost brag about how bad they used to be - almost longingly. I am convinced that occasionally they are justifying current behavior by comparing it to what they used to do - it's a "little bit bad" but not as bad as it used to be. Someone doing that isn't going to like hearing about "keeping grace." Maybe they'd prefer "slipping and getting back grace." Although your testimony may have been intimidating at the time, I suspect the Lord will continue to use it to take them to a higher place along the way.

I have a similar "void" in my spiritual journey, having to do with my call to preach. While the call was quite distinct, I have never had the "urgency" to stand behind a wooden pulpit. I am not compelled to do what we most commonly think of as "preach." If I never "prepare a sermon and deliver it" on a Sunday morning again in my life, the ministry to which the Lord has called me would not be diminished one bit. I will continue to declare, communicate, persuade, live out, demonstrate, and love through - the Gospel. Those things I am compelled to do, but not especially stand in front of a congregation, announce a text, and rant on for thirty minutes. Most credentialing boards would retrospectively encourage me to not seek ordination as an elder, I suppose. Reality is that I never sought it, anyway: the church recognized something and granted ordination. I am humbly uncomfortable/comfortable, but honored: yet my testimony is different from that of most other elders, I guess.

Fortunately for me, credentials boards don't press me anymore. They will you, however. I encourage you to say that early on, you made a conscious decision to place your faith in the Lord and keep it there. You likely have done that on many occasions: that's a decision we make every day. That might not be the words a credentials board wants to hear, but you can be pretty sure that's what Jesus wants. I'd stick with making Him happy.

[Randy Wise]

My testimony as to why I state I belong to Jesus "I have the Spirit of Christ in me"What did I do to have that gift? "I asked for it" It seemed more valuable to me then even all the gold in the world. Randy

[Susan Unger]

Susan; you have used the term "keeping grace" a few times now and you have given me a fresh perspective on it, thanks!

A couple of weeks ago the theme from ashes to fire was "I am the vine", and since there aren't an abundance of grapevine songs, my mind went to "keeping grace" as the theme for the music. As a vine keeps and nourishes it's offshoots and grafts. My thoughts went to how his grace keeps us through the tough times, I began with "Redeemed" and grafted it into the provided song of "Your Throne" which didn't appear to be thematically correct, then we went to "Leaning on The Everlasting Arms", we ended with the story of Horatio Spafford and "It is Well." I was looking for a progression from the joy of redemption through trust and then his hedge of protection when times get really tough.

Kind of standard fare that would go along with the "bad boy" testimonies and stories that are so common. I'm seeing now that we need his "keeping grace" not just to keep us safe in times of trouble, rather we need it all the time. Thanks for showing me this.

You're welcome!

[Sarah Smith]

My parents did raise me to believe that Jesus was the Christ, and I don't ever remember a time when I didn't believe the correct historical facts about Jesus.

But I can tell you the day, the time, the place where I was saved.

It happened when I realized that although I was a "good girl", not going around doing those awful things we were hearing in those magnificent testimonies, I was also a sinner.

It is also a sinner to be the Pharisee, sitting back thanking God that we have never sinned. (Just to be clear--I don't read that as Susan's testimony AT ALL.)

I realized that no amount of being a "good girl" could make up for my heart attitudes of smug self satisfaction, of selfishness, or just plain ignoring God when I wanted to ignore Him and adoring Him when I wanted to adore Him.

I "got it" that even good girls are sinners. Indeed it is our "righteousnesses" according the Bible that are filthy rags.

Let go of my own goodness and let Him pour out His, and the rest is history.

I say all of that to say this: the testimony we need to be giving people is exactly what the Bible says. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All have to repent and believe.

But no two will have the same experience. Some of us slow learners come later in life. Some come so tiny they probably won't be able to remember coming to Christ. Some experience a crisis of conversion that is of epic emotional proportions. Some don't.

And it is ok, as long as we don't tell ourselves there never was time we were unsaved.

My very liturgical Lutheran pastor friend who believes strongly in baptismal regeneration (don't think CotN teaches exactly that!) turns around and says that at some point in our lives, however, we will be asked to keep or reject the faith given us. To choose to walk with Christ or to reject Him. To continue on the good road our parents put us on, or to say, nah, not for me.

Or as she puts it--some of us are started out in life off the road of faith and have to take an entrance ramp to get there. Some of us are blessed to have been put on the road of faith by our parents--but we sure better not take an exit ramp by ceasing a life of repentance of sin and trust in Christ for forgiveness.