CNN exposes anti-gay rant by N.C. Baptist Pastor

[Bob Hunter]

One more round of anti-gay rhetoric coming out of the pulpit. I'm wondering if this is the tip of the iceberg. This has happened twice in the last month. CNN's Anderson Cooper has investigated two incidences of anti-gay pulpit rants. Both from churches in the South, both Baptist and both with rather large followings. Church websites that feature uploaded sermons are providing rich fodder for the media.

As one who lived in the deep South most of my growing up, I am very familiar with this vein of thought. I remember when it was common (and acceptable) for white Baptist church goers to use racial slurs in describing African Americans.

I see some common characteristics in these stories that feature:

1) America comes first (Nationalism to an extreme)
2) Homophobic bigotry
3) Fundamentalism with literal interpretation of scripture
4) Stereotypical thinking
5) Use of hyperbole as a rhetorical device (putting gays in an electric fence, etc.)
6) Confrontation as a method of expressing one's values
7) Ridicule as an acceptable form of speech
8) The Bible is used as a billy club to straighten people out

You could probably add some to the list.

How pervasive is this problem?

Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/2...minating-gays/

[Dan Henderson]

[QUOTE=Bob Hunter;140230]Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?

[QUOTE]

No, as stated before, A church without a non-profit status is then free to form a PAC and advocate for particular candidates. That voting block is still too powerful, especially in the South, for politicians to want to mess with. Any taxes paid by Churches would be at the expense of any benevolences they happen to provide. Bills will always be paid first.

[Cam Pence]

WOW....there was another guy once that had an idea to confine a whole group of people behind fences and let them "die out". The Jewish community was not a big fan. Sad stuff.

[Paul DeBaufer]

One more round of anti-gay rhetoric coming out of the pulpit. I'm wondering if this is the tip of the iceberg. This has happened twice in the last month. CNN's Anderson Cooper has investigated two incidences of anti-gay pulpit rants. Both from churches in the South, both Baptist and both with rather large followings. Church websites that feature uploaded sermons are providing rich fodder for the media.

As one who lived in the deep South most of my growing up, I am very familiar with this vein of thought. I remember when it was common (and acceptable) for white Baptist church goers to use racial slurs in describing African Americans.

I see some common characteristics in these stories that feature:

1) America comes first (Nationalism to an extreme)
2) Homophobic bigotry
3) Fundamentalism with literal interpretation of scripture
4) Stereotypical thinking
5) Use of hyperbole as a rhetorical device (putting gays in an electric fence, etc.)
6) Confrontation as a method of expressing one's values
7) Ridicule as an acceptable form of speech
8) The Bible is used as a billy club to straighten people out

You could probably add some to the list.

How pervasive is this problem?

Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/2...minating-gays/

[QUOTE=Dan Henderson;140232][QUOTE=Bob Hunter;140230]Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?

No, as stated before, A church without a non-profit status is then free to form a PAC and advocate for particular candidates. That voting block is still too powerful, especially in the South, for politicians to want to mess with. Any taxes paid by Churches would be at the expense of any benevolences they happen to provide. Bills will always be paid first.

I really do not think that they could lose their 501(3)(c) status for hate speech. It is when they put their money and voice behind specific candidates and ballot issues that the problems begin. I don't theink the IRS cares so much what you say as they do where you put your money.

[Bob Hunter]

WOW....there was another guy once that had an idea to confine a whole group of people behind fences and let them "die out". The Jewish community was not a big fan. Sad stuff.

It is a dreadful thought. But try understand the particular style of preaching. A lot of exaggeration and hype are used to provoke thought and compel listeners to action. It's all a part of the pulpit persona that embodies the Southern way of life. Rhetorical devices such as hyperbole (exaggeration), fanciful illustrations, diatribe, etc., are used to entertain listeners and illicit a following. Mix in some Southern slang and a condescending attitude and "voila" you have a bigoted sermon! It's just that simple.

[Bob Hunter]

[QUOTE=Paul DeBaufer;140236][QUOTE=Dan Henderson;140232]

Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?



I really do not think that they could lose their 501(3)(c) status for hate speech. It is when they put their money and voice behind specific candidates and ballot issues that the problems begin. I don't theink the IRS cares so much what you say as they do where you put your money.

CNN is reporting that the political rhetoric has gone to far, and the IRS will investigate. But we have been around this block before and nothing comes of it.

[Paul DeBaufer]

It is a dreadful thought. But try understand the particular style of preaching. A lot of exaggeration and hype are used to provoke thought and compel listeners to action. It's all a part of the pulpit persona that embodies the Southern way of life. Rhetorical devices such as hyperbole (exaggeration), fanciful illustrations, diatribe, etc., are used to entertain listeners and illicit a following. Mix in some Southern slang and a condescending attitude and "voila" you have a bigoted sermon! It's just that simple.

I'm sorry Bob but this is hate speech intended to incite hate in the hearers all in the name of God and Christ. He doesn't want anyone to think, just to agree with him and hate. We, all Christians need to distance ourselves from this extremist hatred. It is people like this who cause the world to think we are all haters and we are not. Instead of trying to find rationalizations for such hate speech we should be decrying it. It doesn't matter your opinion in the particular matter, it hurts the cause of Christ in that we are all painted with the same brush. I think Cam's example is spot on.

[Peggy Gray]

Who else is listening besides Anderson Cooper when the Church's stand on sin/holiness turns into rants, ridicule, and hyperbole? Well, who knows? In his book "A Charitable Discourse", Dan Boone was referring to the abortion issue (though I think it applies here) when he said, "In our opposition to abortion, have we left room for Christians to rationalize the bombing of abortion clinics or the murder of doctors who perform abortions? I hear a loud 'No'. But given the immaturity and instability of many within earshot of the church, can we admit our responsibility to use careful language when taking our stance for life? We are our brother's keeper."

[Dan Henderson]

These types of people are outliers in the spirit of Jeremiah Wright not in the Spirit of our Lord. You can find anti-everything coming from "pulpits". I think we need to worry about our own pulpits. I know I'm a broken record but we need to worry about policing ourselves, that is Nazarene pulpits. Lets make sure our houses are in order.

The IRS is a policy interpreter and implementor not a policy maker. There must be a law on the books that they can cite that applies specifically to 501(c)3 status. Otherwise, they have no power.

[Bob Hunter]

I'm sorry Bob but this is hate speech intended to incite hate in the hearers all in the name of God and Christ. He doesn't want anyone to think, just to agree with him and hate. We, all Christians need to distance ourselves from this extremist hatred. It is people like this who cause the world to think we are all haters and we are not. Instead of trying to find rationalizations for such hate speech we should be decrying it. It doesn't matter your opinion in the particular matter, it hurts the cause of Christ in that we are all painted with the same brush. I think Cam's example is spot on.

I don't disagree with that Paul at all. I certainly despise it. But mind you, I'm trying to understand a culture that has somehow become the purveyor of ant-gay rants. I'm just looking at how their methods contribute to the formulation of hate speech. The rhetorical devices Southern preachers us (including Black churches) are somewhat unfamiliar to folks not from the South. It helps to understand the methods of communication. Of course I did point out that it was in fact bigoted, just FYI.

[Dan Henderson]

I don't disagree with that Paul at all. I certainly despise it. But mind you, I'm trying to understand a culture that has somehow become the purveyor of ant-gay rants.

Its the postmodern form of debate. Whomever yells the loudest and most often must be right. No need for facts.

[Paul DeBaufer]

I don't disagree with that Paul at all. I certainly despise it. But mind you, I'm trying to understand a culture that has somehow become the purveyor of ant-gay rants. I'm just looking at how their methods contribute to the formulation of hate speech. The rhetorical devices Southern preachers us (including Black churches) are somewhat unfamiliar to folks not from the South. It helps to understand the methods of communication. Of course I did point out that it was in fact bigoted, just FYI.

I know you don't agree, support, or in anyway endorse what this clown is doing.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Its the postmodern form of debate. Whomever yells the loudest and most often must be right. No need for facts.

Not post-modern at all. Just the method used by those so self-convinced and truly ignorant (and maybe a little defective as well). All ages, I am sure have seen this.

[Dan Henderson]

Not post-modern at all. Just the method used by those so self-convinced and truly ignorant (and maybe a little defective as well). All ages, I am sure have seen this.

And from all levels of scholarship

[Hans Deventer]

It is a dreadful thought. But try understand the particular style of preaching. A lot of exaggeration and hype are used to provoke thought and compel listeners to action.

Well, it most certainly does. I'd run away as fast as I possibly could.

[Bob Hunter]

I know you don't agree, support, or in anyway endorse what this clown is doing.

I just didn't want to sound snooty or anything. I was trying to call your attention to my earlier comment where I clearly point out how bigoted the man is. I was looking for excuses to use emoticons because I'm bored.

[Charles W Christian]

The hard part is that this is the second North Carolina pastor in the last month who has said something so ignorant sounding. There ARE actually preachers in North Carolina who don't go around saying these kinds of dumb things -- even those who oppose gay marriage, etc.

CWC

[Gary Creely]

The video:

[Bob Hunter]

The video:

I'm again it!

[George Wallace]

Now that the internet has blown the door open to what is actually said in the pulpits of Christian churches, do you think it is possible for some churches to lose their not-for-profit status?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/2...minating-gays/

No, as stated before, A church without a non-profit status is then free to form a PAC and advocate for particular candidates. That voting block is still too powerful, especially in the South, for politicians to want to mess with. Any taxes paid by Churches would be at the expense of any benevolences they happen to provide. Bills will always be paid first.

I really do not think that they could lose their 501(3)(c) status for hate speech. It is when they put their money and voice behind specific candidates and ballot issues that the problems begin. I don't theink the IRS cares so much what you say as they do where you put your money.

CNN is reporting that the political rhetoric has gone to far, and the IRS will investigate. But we have been around this block before and nothing comes of it.

The IRS is a policy interpreter and implementor not a policy maker. There must be a law on the books that they can cite that applies specifically to 501(c)3 status. Otherwise, they have no power.

It will likely be a problem for the IRS or for any investigational arm whatever to do anything. There is zero requirement for a church, any church to file for 501(c)3 status in order to be tax exempt. The IRS's own documentation sets this forth. Most Indie-Fundie Churches know this very well and do not seek 501(c)3 status. I tried to check out this churches web site for info, but of course its bandwidth had been exceeded

IDK NC's 'hate speech' laws, but that might be a possibility... Of course that could open a Pandora's Box that no one wants opened. Just need to chalk it up to idiocy!

EDITED: To add that it now looks like all of the churches web sites have been taken down, with the exception of it's Sermonaudio page.

[Cam Pence]

So basically it is about waiting to see if the IRS is "again it"

[George Wallace]

So basically it is about waiting to see if the IRS is "again it"

It really wont matter what the IRS is "again" if this church hasn't filed for 501(c)3 status which is not required for a church to be tax exempt. Churches are tax exempt.

Blessings
George

[Bob Hunter]

The hard part is that this is the second North Carolina pastor in the last month who has said something so ignorant sounding. There ARE actually preachers in North Carolina who don't go around saying these kinds of dumb things -- even those who oppose gay marriage, etc.

CWC

This video will give you more of an idea as to the style, the rhetoric, spiritual grandstanding and flamboyance that a Southern preacher tries to create.

[Cam Pence]

This video will give you more of an idea as to the style, the rhetoric, spiritual grandstanding and flamboyance that a Southern preacher tries to create.

From some reason, I can't get Ricky Bobby out of my head

[Bob Hunter]

From some reason, I can't get Ricky Bobby out of my head

Boogety, boogety, boogety! Whatever that means....