Messing with Sasquatch

[Roy Richardson]

I know this is dangerous ground, but can someone give me a URL on a site that digitally change the key of hymns. We have a problem with our vocalists because the hymns are keyed so high.

If you know of one that can transpose on the fly, I would appreciate it.

Hopefully no one will notice that we have messed with the hymns.

[Bud Pugh]

Roy,
My daughter tells me that Songselect by CCLI does this for many hymns. I just looked up How Great Thou Art and could select from all half-steps in the scale Ab-G. This is not a free site, of course, but I think that if you have a CCLI license you have access to Songselect.

[Craig Laughlin]

Used to use song select and it worked great for that. Now my music guy just does it himself. People love that the songs are in a range that normal people can sing.

[Jim Chabot]

I know this is dangerous ground, but can someone give me a URL on a site that digitally change the key of hymns. We have a problem with our vocalists because the hymns are keyed so high.

If you know of one that can transpose on the fly, I would appreciate it.

Hopefully no one will notice that we have messed with the hymns.

You can give this a try Roy. It is a free download. I've used it in the past, just import the song, select the entire track and use the pitch change effect. Only problem is that it does not have a built in mp3 encoder so you have to save in wave format, but you can run a wave file through iTunes to convert to mp3 is space is an issue.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

More than 3 half steps in either direction will make the pitch shift obvious as the instruments will sound distorted.

I can't remember the name of the program, but way back I had a Viao Laptop and it came with a program that would pitch shift on the fly, so they must be out there. Since I'm seriously type "A" I make sure that I have things in the right key before the service, I don't want to take a chance that the sound guy might forget to change the key.

[Jon Twitchell]

You can give this a try Roy. It is a free download. I've used it in the past, just import the song, select the entire track and use the pitch change effect. Only problem is that it does not have a built in mp3 encoder so you have to save in wave format, but you can run a wave file through iTunes to convert to mp3 is space is an issue.

More than 3 half steps in either direction will make the pitch shift obvious as the instruments will sound distorted.

I can't remember the name of the program, but way back I had a Viao Laptop and it came with a program that would pitch shift on the fly, so they must be out there. Since I'm seriously type "A" I make sure that I have things in the right key before the service, I don't want to take a chance that the sound guy might forget to change the key.

Did you intend to post a link?

[Jim Chabot]

Oops, you know what Roy? Are you looking to transpose sheet music or recordings? When you said digitally, I was thinking recorded music.

[Roy Richardson]

sheet music is what I am working on. We have hymnals, but they are keyed too high for our singers

[Marsha Lynn]

Roy,
My daughter tells me that Songselect by CCLI does this for many hymns. I just looked up How Great Thou Art and could select from all half-steps in the scale Ab-G. This is not a free site, of course, but I think that if you have a CCLI license you have access to Songselect.

Wouldn't that be nice? SongSelect is an add-on to CCLI with several "packages" available. Access to printed music will cost at least $122/year on top of the CCLI license.

SongSelect is great for getting CCM selections in any key. We have found it less complete for public domain hymns/gospel songs. For example, it doesn't have music for "Just a Closer Walk with Thee" in any form. Other hymns or older "new" music, such as Gaither songs, might be available only as an "arrangement" -- unfamiliar chords for familiar songs. We go there first when encountering a song from the hymnal that puts our guitarist in difficult keys, but, as often as not, I end up scribbling in new chords by hand for him.

Interesting to discover this thread today. My brother and I had a discussion just last night about the offensiveness of moving a composer's music to a new key. I remember our great uncle waxing eloquent years ago about transposition being an unacceptable practice. He didn't manage to convict me enough to keep me from doing it, however. We do occasionally pay the price in our church music when we have a song in a choice of keys and not all the musicians get the memo on which key we're using.

Marsha

[Roy Richardson]

Interesting to discover this thread today. My brother and I had a discussion just last night about the offensiveness of moving a composer's music to a new key. I remember our great uncle waxing eloquent years ago about transposition being an unacceptable practice. He didn't manage to convict me enough to keep me from doing it, however. We do occasionally pay the price in our church music when we have a song in a choice of keys and not all the musicians get the memo on which key we're using.

Marsha

I guess one has to look at the purpose of the music. If it is for congregational singing and the key makes that difficult, is it more important to honor the composer's key or his/her wish that the song be sung in a way that is recognizable? One seems a bit legalistic to me, but that is my opinion.

When I was in our HS orchestra, we played versions of pieces that had been re-arranged to make them easier for people of our level. This allowed us to play well-known pieces that would have otherwise been to difficult or were designed for larger orchestras than us. I guess I don't get that argument.

[Gina Stevenson]

I am with you, Marsha (& Roy) ... while certain keys may have varying "colors," when it comes to helping something be more accessible to more people, I have no qualms re transposing something.

[Dan Henderson]

We have no problem revising the poetry of the old hymns. I would thing that would be more offensive than changing the key. Consider the Issac Watts poem : "such a worm as I" changed to "a sinner such as I". Both mean the same thing, but the former is a powerful word-picture, the latter ... blah ...

[Jim Chabot]

I am with you, Marsha (& Roy) ... while certain keys may have varying "colors," when it comes to helping something be more accessible to more people, I have no qualms re transposing something.

And I agree with you Gina! Chords do possess different color dependent upon key due to the tempering of the scale. Definitely shouldn't be an issue with transposing for the purpose of singing where the tempering is removed.

I'm thinking that CCLI is probably the best source if one is looking for quick access to transposed music.

If you are looking for a free resource, you could try this site. There are many songs available, some are in different keys and there is pdf format sheet music posted for most of them. Copyright songs require a nominal royalty fee which is $0.15 I use them whenever we do a service with Pipe Organ, it's an incredible free service!

http://www.smallchurchmusic3.com/

[Gina Stevenson]

We have no problem revising the poetry of the old hymns. I would thing that would be more offensive than changing the key. Consider the Issac Watts poem : "such a worm as I" changed to "a sinner such as I". Both mean the same thing, but the former is a powerful word-picture, the latter ... blah ...

Oooooh, you've hit upon a pet peeve!!!!! Hey, if kids can learn a word meaning with which they are not familiar when reading Shakespearian antiquity, it can also be done for music too ~~ perhaps eloquently explained in a few seconds by one leading the music now & then ~~ and then continue to be used ... for poetic integrity & the beauty thereof ... not 100% of the time perhaps, but definitely in certain instances.

Still recall, having sung many things by heart for years, the first time I was singing with a congregation (where? having lived several places), tho't something sounded funny, like we were not all singing the same thing! Then when I grabbed a hymnal, looked up what was being sung, I realized for the first time just how much editing had been done! Of course, maybe I do lean towards poetic/aesthetics more than some, because it has even been suggested by someone ~~ while at the same time some other musicians have appreciated the writing (Harold Lane incl, long story) ~~ that a few words in what I have composed were too archaic. Well, I was not at all trying to do that for effect, but things just came out that way, fit together well poetically, etc, and ........

Anyway, off my own little soapbox now ... but I definitely must agree with this "let's be careful, very careful, when editing the hymnal" idea (yeah, I know Harold had a hand in it, too, but still ....). Do I dare admit that I have found a song now & then for which I just could not bring myself to sing the edited lyrics, so have "rebelliously(?)" found myself singing the lyrics I knew ... tho' not too loudly.

And I agree with you Gina! Chords do possess different color dependent upon key due to the tempering of the scale. Definitely shouldn't be an issue with transposing for the purpose of singing where the tempering is removed.

I'm thinking that CCLI is probably the best source if one is looking for quick access to transposed music.

If you are looking for a free resource, you could try this site. There are many songs available, some are in different keys and there is pdf format sheet music posted for most of them. Copyright songs require a nominal royalty fee which is $0.15 I use them whenever we do a service with Pipe Organ, it's an incredible free service!

http://www.smallchurchmusic3.com/

Thanks. Will bookmark that for the future ... not "doing" music at the moment, tho' have done so for many years.

[Roy Richardson]

And I agree with you Gina! Chords do possess different color dependent upon key due to the tempering of the scale. Definitely shouldn't be an issue with transposing for the purpose of singing where the tempering is removed.

I'm thinking that CCLI is probably the best source if one is looking for quick access to transposed music.

If you are looking for a free resource, you could try this site. There are many songs available, some are in different keys and there is pdf format sheet music posted for most of them. Copyright songs require a nominal royalty fee which is $0.15 I use them whenever we do a service with Pipe Organ, it's an incredible free service!

http://www.smallchurchmusic3.com/

Thanks Jim. The specific song I am seeking help on is "The Comforter Has Come" and since I can't find a transposition site that has it, I went with the organ rendition of it on smallchurchmusic3.com. At least with the booming organ, we can let the vocalists fade on the high parts to get through it.

That is a neat site,

[Marsha Lynn]

Thanks Jim. The specific song I am seeking help on is "The Comforter Has Come" and since I can't find a transposition site that has it, I went with the organ rendition of it on smallchurchmusic3.com. At least with the booming organ, we can let the vocalists fade on the high parts to get through it.

That is a neat site,

Glad you found a solution. At least it's in Bb in the newer hymnals rather than the C of Praise and Worship.

If it makes you feel any better, music notation for that song is not available in CCLI's SongSelect. If you don't have the money for that service, that's not what stands between you and easy access to transpositions of older hymns.

Marsha

[Jim Chabot]

Thanks Jim. The specific song I am seeking help on is "The Comforter Has Come" and since I can't find a transposition site that has it, I went with the organ rendition of it on smallchurchmusic3.com. At least with the booming organ, we can let the vocalists fade on the high parts to get through it.

That is a neat site,

Your singing "The Comforter Has Come?" What a coincidence, we are as well, I wonder why that is?

I'm using Melody Twitchel's recording which, according to my handy "pitch" app on my phone is in Bb.

You might want to check out their site also. Her playing style is a tad livelier than Clyde's, plus it's a good way to support a fellow naznetter who is providing a service desperately needed by small churches. (Although I did speed this song up just a tad.)

www.yourchurchpianist.net/

[Roy Richardson]

we looked in Songselect, which we had, and I had forgotten about. But, as you said, it isn't in there.