Differentiators in finding a new church home

[Gene Tatsch]

Several recent threads are pushing me - especially "Can you love Jesus yet hate the church" - since we're in the process of searching for our next church home. I'm sure that there are several facets that need examination - getting my ears tickled (even with solid Scriptural teaching) in a Sunday morning service may be important, but it is only one facet of the overall character of a congregation and its leadership. And inadequate for me to understand how a particular congregation could fit into our quest to be good disciples of Jesus.

The approach for the spiritual dimension that I'm considering is to start with the Sunday morning preaching/teaching service, then visit a Sunday School class or two, then interview a leader to get a handle on how the leadership intentionally leads the congregation to live out:

1. the Great Command (love God with our whole being & our neighbor as ourselves),
2. the Great Commission (making disciples - the whole process, not merely evangelization), and
3. Jesus command (John 13:34) to love the brothers as He loves us.

There also needs to be consideration of administrative dimensions- such as:

1. the decision-making process (and its openness to inputs from outside the core leadership),
2. transparency (how finances & decisions are made and communicated),
3. what leadership does to encourage congregants to move the "Sunday experience" out into every aspect of their lives.

What am I missing? What should I do differently?

thanks much/gene --

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I don't guess this is very profound, but I've noticed that people who are church shopping (as opposed to bring brought by a friend) and stay at our church are those who say things like, "We instantly felt at home" or "It seemed the Lord told us that this is where we ought to be."

Those shopping who didn't stay say things like, "We didn't see anyone our age" or "We're looking for a different style of music....or larger teen program, etc."

I'm not sure what to make of it aside from having a vague feeling that finding the place where you feel the Lord wants you likely trumps finding a church that matches one's criteria.

Does that make sense?

[Pete Vecchi]

I don't know what you're missing or should do differently, but it seems to me that a very small church would likely be automatically outside your search parameters. For instance, our congregation doesn't have "Sunday School classes." When we tried, we were averaging about 4 to 6 people in our 1 class--usually the 2 pastors and their spouses and 1 or 2 other people (including the teenage child of one of the pastors).

However, in February, we discontinued traditional Sunday School, and instead began having a light lunch after the service, and a discussion that stems from the message that was just shared during the service. We normally now have about 15-18 people stay for this (about 80% of our Sunday morning worship attendance weekly). When we add in the fact that the weekday Teen group meetings can now add towards our "Sunday School" attendance, our "Sunday School" attendance is generally 80% or more of our morning worship attendance--and at times even exceeds it.

The pre-determined qualifications mentioned also seem to indicate that your desire is for a church that more or less has it "all together". I don't want to presume to know where God is leading you, but might I suggest the possibility that He might want you to be part of a congregation that doesn't yet have it "all together"? Perhaps He might want you to be an integral part of the process of moving the congregation in that direction.

Again, please don't take this as saying that you shouldn't have these wishes for the congregation for which you are looking. I was just offering an alternate way of looking at things.

[Gina Stevenson]

I don't guess this is very profound, but I've noticed that people who are church shopping (as opposed to bring brought by a friend) and stay at our church are those who say things like, "We instantly felt at home" or "It seemed the Lord told us that this is where we ought to be." . . . . . . . . . . . Does that make sense?

'Sure does, Scott. Have experienced that more than once by myself, having moved around a bit before marrying. Particularly recall how in AZ, after Danny & I had visited several places, one day after church we got into the car to go home, looked at each other and just knew. Could not even tell you what was said, but not much ... just the mention that we somehow just knew.

[Billy Cox]

I don't guess this is very profound, but I've noticed that people who are church shopping (as opposed to bring brought by a friend) and stay at our church are those who say things like, "We instantly felt at home" or "It seemed the Lord told us that this is where we ought to be."

Those shopping who didn't stay say things like, "We didn't see anyone our age" or "We're looking for a different style of music....or larger teen program, etc."

I'm not sure what to make of it aside from having a vague feeling that finding the place where you feel the Lord wants you likely trumps finding a church that matches one's criteria.

Does that make sense?

It could be that some new people look around, see people their age and find the music affirming of their experience/taste (etc) and then report that they felt right at home or that the Lord told them that was where they ought to be.

In other words, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. Those who stay express it in terms of a spiritual reality, and those who don't stay express in terms of the things that were obstacles to spiritual reality. I resist the idea that those who become part of 'us' do so by divine providence, and those who kept walking must have been operating in the flesh.

[Dave McClung]

Several recent threads are pushing me - especially "Can you love Jesus yet hate the church" - since we're in the process of searching for our next church home. I'm sure that there are several facets that need examination - getting my ears tickled (even with solid Scriptural teaching) in a Sunday morning service may be important, but it is only one facet of the overall character of a congregation and its leadership. And inadequate for me to understand how a particular congregation could fit into our quest to be good disciples of Jesus.

The approach for the spiritual dimension that I'm considering is to start with the Sunday morning preaching/teaching service, then visit a Sunday School class or two, then interview a leader to get a handle on how the leadership intentionally leads the congregation to live out:

1. the Great Command (love God with our whole being & our neighbor as ourselves),
2. the Great Commission (making disciples - the whole process, not merely evangelization), and
3. Jesus command (John 13:34) to love the brothers as He loves us.

There also needs to be consideration of administrative dimensions- such as:

1. the decision-making process (and its openness to inputs from outside the core leadership),
2. transparency (how finances & decisions are made and communicated),
3. what leadership does to encourage congregants to move the "Sunday experience" out into every aspect of their lives.

What am I missing? What should I do differently?

thanks much/gene --

I have not read the other answers yet, so I may be duplicating what someone else said.

As part of your process, you should ask "Can I make a positive difference by being a part of this congregation?" Your church home is a place of service.

Many of our friends questioned when we left one of the strongest churches on the district to join the Gig Harbor Church. In the church we left, I was a member of the board and taught a Sunday School class that was larger than the entire congregation at Gig Harbor. The Gig Harbor church would not have scored well on several of the points in your outline, but the pastor's wife had a terminal illness. Linda and I felt led to be friends of the pastor and wife during that time. Although we enjoy being a part of a larger church, we know that we are where God wants us.

[Peggy Gray]

I wonder how many people attend a new church a couple of Sundays and say: "This congregation is mostly way older/younger than I am, the music isn't my style, and the sermons are painful to hear...but I feel the Lord wants me to stay here..." ? And if so, would they consider the relationship "like a marriage"?

[Dave McClung]

I wonder how many people attend a new church a couple of Sundays and say: "This congregation is mostly way older/younger than I am, the music isn't my style, and the sermons are painful to hear...but I feel the Lord wants me to stay here..." ? And if so, would they consider the relationship "like a marriage"?

Peggy, I am not sure what you mean by "like a marriage" but I wouldn't characterize my relationship with a church that way. When I married Linda, I promised "for better or for worse." I didn't make that kind of commitment to my local church.

[Peggy Gray]

Somewhere on another thread it was suggested that church membership was a commitment like a marriage commitment.

[Billy Cox]

I wonder how many people attend a new church a couple of Sundays and say: "This congregation is mostly way older/younger than I am, the music isn't my style, and the sermons are painful to hear...but I feel the Lord wants me to stay here..." ? And if so, would they consider the relationship "like a marriage"?

I'm sure that there are people who figure that God's power is made perfect in discomfort, and so they may choose a church that others would see as disaster waiting to happen. I doubt that many people are that committed to kicking against the goads.

[Rich Schmidt]

When my wife and I were visiting churches in Kansas City years ago (when I was in seminary), the main thing we were asking ourselves was, "Is this church focused on the mission of Christ in a way that we can feel good about joining them?" That covers all sorts of factors, from the way the Word is preached to the way the worship is conducted to the ways the church is active in the world, etc. I'll admit, it wasn't exactly an explicit question we were asking every time we visited a church. There was a lot of intuition involved. But that was the angle we were approaching it from.

[Jim Chabot]

I'm sure that there are people who figure that God's power is made perfect in discomfort, and so they may choose a church that others would see as disaster waiting to happen. I doubt that many people are that committed to kicking against the goads.

Which is a shame. The church we are at right now was one that we would have never picked if we were picky. And yes we used to be picky. The first Sunday we visited, there were 18 people in attendance, no musicians and singing with tapes with the vocals still on them. The building wasn't in the best shape either, it was depressing. This is the best church we have ever been a part of and we have never been more happy and content!

This is the best advice given in this thread so far by far! Kind of reminds me of something that JFK said once.

As part of your process, you should ask "Can I make a positive difference by being a part of this congregation?" Your church home is a place of service.

[Billy Cox]

Which is a shame. The church we are at right now was one that we would have never picked if we were picky. And yes we used to be picky. The first Sunday we visited, there were 18 people in attendance, no musicians and singing with tapes with the vocals still on them. The building wasn't in the best shape either, it was depressing. This is the best church we have ever been a part of and we have never been more happy and content!

This is the best advice given in this thread so far by far! Kind of reminds me of something that JFK said once.

That's an apt comparison. Interestingly, if people were already asking what they could do for their country, JFK wouldn't have needed to call people to do so. What then can the church do about church consumerism..I mean short of cursing the evils of church consumerism.

[Billy Cox]

When my wife and I were visiting churches in Kansas City years ago (when I was in seminary), the main thing we were asking ourselves was, "Is this church focused on the mission of Christ in a way that we can feel good about joining them?" That covers all sorts of factors, from the way the Word is preached to the way the worship is conducted to the ways the church is active in the world, etc. I'll admit, it wasn't exactly an explicit question we were asking every time we visited a church. There was a lot of intuition involved. But that was the angle we were approaching it from.

So where did you land?

[Gene Tatsch]

Somewhere on another thread it was suggested that church membership was a commitment like a marriage commitment.

No, I don't quite perceive membership in an institutional church quite as strong as marriage, but to perceive that our choice was loyalty to that organization OR to Jesus ... over many months, with many attempts at reconciliation ... is pain akin to divorce

[Rich Schmidt]

So where did you land?

Eventually we landed at Christ Community Church in Olathe, when they were still meeting in the middle school gym. I think they were about 6 years old at the time. (Were were in KC from summer of '97 to summer of '99. I did a year of MA Religion work at Olivet that transfered to NTS.)

But first we "landed" in a couple of other places. After visiting 3-4 churches/week for a month or two, we connected with some people in the young adult SS class at Overland Park Church o' the Naz. We thought that would be our "home church" and got involved (choir, kids ministry, etc)... but after a few months, we realized that while we liked the folks in our SS class, we weren't a very good fit with the rest of the church.

At the same time, we'd been attending the Saturday night contemporary service at KC First Church o' the Naz. It was brand new, just started by their youth pastor, and he invited us just to come and help provide some "critical mass" for it. I ended up joining the worship team, and we attended there for several months, too, until they moved it to Sunday mornings. By then, we'd already fallen in love with Christ Community Church and knew it was where we wanted to be for the rest of our time there.

Strangely enough, we'd visited Christ Community Church during our first couple months of visiting all those churches, and it just didn't stick. But when we realized that we needed to leave Overland Park, we decided to give it another try... and that time it stuck.

[Billy Cox]

Eventually we landed at Christ Community Church in Olathe, when they were still meeting in the middle school gym. I think they were about 6 years old at the time. (Were were in KC from summer of '97 to summer of '99. I did a year of MA Religion work at Olivet that transfered to NTS.)

But first we "landed" in a couple of other places. After visiting 3-4 churches/week for a month or two, we connected with some people in the young adult SS class at Overland Park Church o' the Naz. We thought that would be our "home church" and got involved (choir, kids ministry, etc)... but after a few months, we realized that while we liked the folks in our SS class, we weren't a very good fit with the rest of the church.

At the same time, we'd been attending the Saturday night contemporary service at KC First Church o' the Naz. It was brand new, just started by their youth pastor, and he invited us just to come and help provide some "critical mass" for it. I ended up joining the worship team, and we attended there for several months, too, until they moved it to Sunday mornings. By then, we'd already fallen in love with Christ Community Church and knew it was where we wanted to be for the rest of our time there.

Strangely enough, we'd visited Christ Community Church during our first couple months of visiting all those churches, and it just didn't stick. But when we realized that we needed to leave Overland Park, we decided to give it another try... and that time it stuck.

Based on my experience of you on Naznet, I expected that Overland Park would be in the mix. Christ Community in those days seemed to strike that elusive synergy between contemporary worship with a conscious awareness of Church tradition and the Church calendar. Sadly those days are long gone.