Last Sunday, the one leading the service (not our pastor) prayed for the visible presence of God in our church. Since then, 2 people died (age 43 and age 50, the former totally unexpected, the latter from cancer, sooner than expected). I'm not denying that in processing these events, God can become visibly present in our church, but I'm tempted to feel like David after he tried to bring back the Ark of the Covenant for the first time.
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
Be very careful what you ask for?
So it seems.Originally Posted by John Kennedy
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 LaughingDavid Graham - "thanks" for this post
Not a prayer I would make as I fear God. The glory of God would be too much for this mortal.
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A loving God works for the "good" of those that love Him. I can't imagine a prayer to God causing harm to us as God is of another Spirit (Love).
We note that grief/distress comes to us all at times in this life. Christians also note the God of "comfort" in those times of grief. We also can comfort each other.
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.
I guess its easy for us to vent in some difficult or grieving circumstances but did we remember the comfort God did give us during those times (because He does care and love us) and Thank Him? Perfection - Gods Faithfulness
Randy
"The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"
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Although I agree with all you say, I feel we modern evangelicals have often forgotten God is to be feared. I think we take Him to lightely these days, maybe tempt Him too much?
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Yes indeed Ian, we have all too often treated God as though he were a more exulted form of one of us; and that he is rather democratic when it comes to dealing with us. In our effort to understand and relate to God we have made him out to be less than almighty.
It is for good reason that God is mostly transcendant from us. The vastness of the Physical universe is superindended by God who made it. This God is larger than the universe he created and absolutely powerful and in comparison we are so very small and fragile. Indeed we are his creatures and as such we should treat him with a great deal of respect. Comparitively it would be safer for a human to be locked in a pen with a 7 metre long Esturine Crocodile then it would be for a person to be brought into contact with the almighty God unprepared. Our fragility could not cope with the size and power of God. Certainly God is love, and he relates to us through his grace but we are still the creature, and we need to "know our place" in our relationship with the one who made us.
Now some might say; "what about Jesus, wasn't he God? People were safe with him!" True, but in his case, God (the Son) limited himself when he took on human form so that he could interact directly with people...... thus God prepared himself for that encounter. In the next world God prepares his people to meet him, and how that happens I don't know...... maybe it will be connected with the "spiritual body" that we are to be given, and thus we are "safe"....who knows?
Last edited by David Graham; June 30th, 2012 at 05:04 AM. Reason: clarity of arguement
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I continue to be bugged by this, because I see it in church so often these days:
People feel that the service isn't complete unless they encounter God there in a way which they can quantify somehow. Through feeling, or one of their five senses, or something.
But God tells us that He's already present, He's already here with us, He's already very active with us. What, precisely, is it that we're gaining by demanding that God show up and warm our hearts every week?
Might it be that if we pursued him ourselves with our whole attention, we would find Him without needing to beg Him to visit? And that, in fact, this is a reflection of how pale our desire is to truly seek our Lord?
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At my last church we would begin every service with the chorus "Come Holy Spirit We Need Thee". I would make sure at least once a month to point out that this is a wonderful song and a wonderful sentiment for we desperately need the Spirit with us at all times, then I would thank the folks there because surely they brought Him with them as they came.
-Jim
To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.
Garrison Keillor
Tho' that's not the way I see it (highlighted area), some I have known came to mind reading your post.
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
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It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~
I didn't read into this thread from what was written in this thread that God would be provoked to anger. You must be seeing other things that you speak of that would anger Jesus and those things must be serious as God is slow to anger.
I did note we do receive comfort from God. God is faithful even when we are not acting so perfect.
If one is living in willful sin in that case the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Randy
"The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"
(Psalms 27:1)
Yes, we do need to remember that Jesus limited Himself soo we could see God's love in the flesh. Yet, sadly and often, we limit Jesus to status of being as we are, merely mortal.
Is God to be feared in the way in which the west understands it or the way in which the Hebrews understood this? From what I have heard they took a little different understanding of the term fear than we do. What that actually was I am not totally sure. It seems like it did not translate well into English.
"Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
I imagine the Hebrews understood it in light of their Scriptures... which describe God doing some pretty awful and awe-inspiring things to people who went against him.
I always go back to CS Lewis likening Jesus to Aslan the lion. He's not safe or tame, but he's good. He can be trusted.
I have heard it is more in light of respect than fear. I normally don't go with C.S. Lewis' idea because I am not sure he fully understood the Hebrew mind set. I will know though whether or not I understand it more after Saturday.
"Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
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