Our Children Leaving the Church

[Bob Myers]

My wife keeps asking me the question: "Are children of church going stay at home moms more likely to stay in the church than children of moms that have a career outside of the home?"

From her observation of families she knows, there is a significant positive correlation between stay at home moms and "adult children" that are still in the church. (Let's not get hung up on "small or capital C" in church, yet...)

Admittedly her sampling is biased by those that she knows, but I agree with her that the question is valid and worth considering, given the recent statistics about the number of our children that are leaving the church.

Please... this is not an attempt to revisit the "mommy wars..." (whatever they were/are), but an honest look into the factors that may impact the spiritual future of our church's children.)

What are your observations from those that you know?

[Mike Schutz]

We have not seen it in our situation. We have children of work-at-home moms staying and leaving, and children of work-outside-the-home moms staying and leaving.

In our situation, the biggest variable is whether the dad is active in the church.

[Dana Grant]

Our experience has been that if DAD goes to church, the kids usually willingly go and keep going. Seems like DAD has a greater influence on whether kids stay in the church or not. That is what I see from my little corner of the world, anyway.

[Jim Franklin]

Welcome, Bob, on a great question for your first post. I will agree with Dana that it seems that if the only parent attending church regularly is the mom at least the sons while attending with mom until they are close to pubescence will stop going if dad is not going as a means to identify manhood with how dad goes or does not. I have a brother in law the only son of 5 children that did not go when my father in law did not go but the 4 girls kept going with my mother in law and her mother in law.

[Nate Pruitt]

This is an interesting question because it is loaded well beneath the surface of what it seems to ask. As has been mentioned dad's do make a difference. (I recall the last statistics I'd seen saying something between 25%-35% of children brought to church by mom remain in the church, while 78% of children brought by dad remain.) However, those statistics don't tell the whole story because they assume that either A) the parents are still together or the father is the primary custodial parent- which is increasing these days -and- B) that a family where dad stays at home without participating in church while the rest of the family attends is categorically the same as a single-parent mother led home. Personally I believe that is particularly skewed because ANY household that shows a division of commitment, be it mom or dad refusing to participate in church attendance, is at a significant disadvantage. A house divided and whatnot.

The one thing that "stay at home" vs. "working" mom often means is that a single mother has no choice but to work. (While this isn't necessarily true due to a plethora of reasons it is typically true.) I haven't seen working mom vs. stay at home mom play out consistently in the various caste levels within which we've done ministry as a family. The job situation isn't the most telling factor. We've seen lower class working mothers with great faith who proclaimed God's miracles raise children with similar understandings, and middle and upper class mothers that are a big part of the American self-help system living lives with little consistent proclamation of faith and more emphasis on "effort" who have kids that are stressed and always trying to find answers. The latter are incredibly difficult to keep encouraged in church, and ultimately we've seen a lot of drift off in those ministries from such youth as they graduate (in a sense) from the church along with high school. The Church can't offer them answers of letting go when they've been indoctrinated with a need to control and change their lives.

I know this got a little off track of the original question, but we have found the issues mentioned in the paragraph above to be far more indicative than whether mom is employed or not. The initial question is just ripe with sweeping generalities that don't translate across class, race, and commitment to faithfulness in God. (Also trying to avoid the "mommy wars" matters here, although they have been well addressed in my household.)

[Jon Bemis]

In our situation, the biggest variable is whether the dad is active in the church.

Same here. Children whose dads are active in our church are much more likely to attend once they're on their own.

[Greg Crofford]

Great discussion...

At the risk of sounding petty, I wonder if the term "stay at home mom" is the best way we can describe this role? The verb "stay" seems so passive, like she's at home watching soap operas by the hour. How about the title "work at home mom"? Or perhaps "full-time homemaker"? And even those work-at-home moms are often busy outside the home, volunteering for school or church activities. I had a work-at-home mom, and with six sons, believe me, she worked more than forty hours per week.

Closer back on the topic, I can say that my dad certainly set a great example of churchmanship. I've tried to do the same for my sons.

[Nate Pruitt]

There are other underlying causes at play these days, too. Remember when there were plenty of times where the "regular church kids" found themselves in the sanctuary? That is a fading memory for many. The church climate as a whole is shifting, and while parents are influential we must remember that a big part of the influence is in modeling behavior. Maybe a good question to ask is, "Are the children of our church getting to observe the adults worship?" (I won't press whether that is even something worth observing in whichever church is attended- not looking to spark "worship wars.")

[Bob Hunter]

We have not seen it in our situation. We have children of work-at-home moms staying and leaving, and children of work-outside-the-home moms staying and leaving.

In our situation, the biggest variable is whether the dad is active in the church.

Very interesting observation Mike. I tried to make this point (and failed miserably). I guess I let my passion for men override my ability to communicate. But why is Dad the "X" factor when it comes to cohesive family involvement in the Church? You already know my point of view, so I won't ask you to indulge me any more. This time, I just want to know what you think.

[Jim Chabot]

Very interesting observation Mike. I tried to make this point (and failed miserably). I guess I let my passion for men override my ability to communicate. But why is Dad the "X" factor when it comes to cohesive family involvement in the Church? You already know my point of view, so I won't ask you to indulge me any more. This time, I just want to know what you think.

Bob; I just want you to know that after reading this thread this morning, You were the first one I thought of. My thoughts today have been, "if indeed it is the father's example that is to large part determinative of children staying in the church, then we need to go back an listen to Bob Hunter some more."

But you beat me to it, I do think it's important to affirm you though. I believe we need to work harder to keep our dad's involved in church, we need to provide places of service and we need to make them feel valued.

[Billy Cox]

My wife keeps asking me the question: "Are children of church going stay at home moms more likely to stay in the church than children of moms that have a career outside of the home?"

My first response was that this sounds like a rhetorical question, but the topic has merit.

The question of children leaving the church typically centers around the post-high school transition. Is that what we're interested in here?

Another question; are we talking about the child dropping out of church altogether, or dropping out of the local church that their parent(s) attends? I don't think we have very good data on this.

One thing that will blur the findings a bit is that 'stay at home' typically correlates with a two parent family where one parent has sufficient income to allow the other parent to choose not to be employed. This also correlates to a higher educational level for one or both parents. It seems unlikely that we could factor out things like income, education and family structure, and form a solid correlation between a stay at home parent and kids that stay in church.

I also question how such findings would be used. Others have already alluded to the so-called research that if dad goes to church, the kids will do so as well. Maybe it has merit, but I think we both know that some churches will misuse the information.

Maybe you're not seeking to fuel the mommy wars, but if such research exists, you can bet that many churches would use that info to heap shame on two-income households and single-parent families, both of whom fall short of the ideal profile for 'good church people'.

But again, I think it's an interesting question; I just cringe to think what the church would do with the 'answer'.

[Jim Chabot]

There are other underlying causes at play these days, too. Remember when there were plenty of times where the "regular church kids" found themselves in the sanctuary? That is a fading memory for many. The church climate as a whole is shifting, and while parents are influential we must remember that a big part of the influence is in modeling behavior. Maybe a good question to ask is, "Are the children of our church getting to observe the adults worship?" (I won't press whether that is even something worth observing in whichever church is attended- not looking to spark "worship wars.")

Interesting. Our older son went with us to the regular adult services since birth, I don't think that he ever experienced "children's church." Today at 27 years old he is active in his church, and at his camp meeting. I say "his" because we are active at a different church and different camp meetings, I'm confident that he is active without any pressure from us.

By the time our younger son was born we were attending a larger church with "children's church" so of course we sent him. I did notice that he seemed more rebellious than our older son, he didn't have the same interest. I chalked it up to children just being different from one another. For the past few years we have either had him stay in service with us to help out with the sound board or the computer, and now we are at a small church once again without "children's church" and he seems to be coming around. Maybe it's due to his age or who knows what, I don't know. But I'm wondering, I'm wondering if keeping our children close and with us as we serve and worship is making a difference? This year he is off to District Camp for the first time and he was incredibly excited to go! So I'm praying that I hear wonderful things about him from John Reilly and John Megyesi. And of course I'm praying that my little guy isn't the one to give John his first gray hair!

[Susan Unger]

Interesting. Our older son went with us to the regular adult services since birth, I don't think that he ever experienced "children's church." Today at 27 years old he is active in his church, and at his camp meeting. I say "his" because we are active at a different church and different camp meetings, I'm confident that he is active without any pressure from us.

By the time our younger son was born we were attending a larger church with "children's church" so of course we sent him. I did notice that he seemed more rebellious than our older son, he didn't have the same interest. I chalked it up to children just being different from one another. For the past few years we have either had him stay in service with us to help out with the sound board or the computer, and now we are at a small church once again without "children's church" and he seems to be coming around. Maybe it's due to his age or who knows what, I don't know. But I'm wondering, I'm wondering if keeping our children close and with us as we serve and worship is making a difference? This year he is off to District Camp for the first time and he was incredibly excited to go! So I'm praying that I hear wonderful things about him from John Reilly and John Megyesi. And of course I'm praying that my little guy isn't the one to give John his first gray hair!

I remember Kami Tuenning making a similar observation. I forget the details but those who went off to children's church didn't seem to stay in church as adults vs. those that did in her family. I know that I fit this pattern. I was in the adults' service starting at a young age [4th grade] and even younger for Sunday night church [no child care] and my committment to God and church is VERY strong.

[Billy Cox]

I remember Kami Tuenning making a similar observation. I forget the details but those who went off to children's church didn't seem to stay in church as adults vs. those that did in her family. I know that I fit this pattern. I was in the adults' service starting at a young age [4th grade] and even younger for Sunday night church [no child care] and my committment to God and church is VERY strong.

It could also be that children/teens who grow up with nearly 100% programming tailored specifically to them have difficulty when the church expects them to grow up and go to the boring adult activities. Those who are smart find a way to help out with children/youth as a volunteer so as to delay the full burden of growing up.

[Susan Unger]

It could also be that children/teens who grow up with nearly 100% programming tailored specifically to them have difficulty when the church expects them to grow up and go to the boring adult activities.

I am sure that that is part of the issue.

[Billy Cox]

I am sure that that is part of the issue.

I had children's church most Sundays when I was a kid, but Sunday nights and Wednesday nights, it was everybody together. The other time slots still gave me pretty good exposure to the broader life of the church. I think I was just an unusual kid though.

[Steven Burton]

It could also be that children/teens who grow up with nearly 100% programming tailored specifically to them have difficulty when the church expects them to grow up and go to the boring adult activities. Those who are smart find a way to help out with children/youth as a volunteer so as to delay the full burden of growing up.

I actually don't fit well in with adults studies or things related to adults. Mainly because I find that children and the young still ask questions and are much easier to have a conversation with and learn with. Not to mention I have a hard time learning in the traditional method.

[Jim Chabot]

I remember Kami Tuenning making a similar observation. I forget the details but those who went off to children's church didn't seem to stay in church as adults vs. those that did in her family. I know that I fit this pattern. I was in the adults' service starting at a young age [4th grade] and even younger for Sunday night church [no child care] and my committment to God and church is VERY strong.

Last night, I recounted my post here with my wife. At first she was questioning the details, then as things started to come together in the time line in her head, all of a sudden she said, "your right." "Danny had a completely different experience than Josh did, and here I was being thankful because in that church I could worship without worrying about Danny behaving." Hopefully we aren't changing churches for a long, long time, we have decided though that "childrens church" is out, even if we are just visiting somewhere.

[George Wallace]

Last night, I recounted my post here with my wife. At first she was questioning the details, then as things started to come together in the time line in her head, all of a sudden she said, "your right." "Danny had a completely different experience than Josh did, and here I was being thankful because in that church I could worship without worrying about Danny behaving." Hopefully we aren't changing churches for a long, long time, we have decided though that "childrens church" is out, even if we are just visiting somewhere.

Divided the Movie

It explores the idea of what happens to the youth in churches that have been divided from adults. It raises serious questions as to the entire philosophy behind youth ministries.

Disclaimer:It is sponsored in part by the National Center for Family Integrated Worship.

It is certainly worth the time.

George

[Jim Chabot]

Divided the Movie

It explores the idea of what happens to the youth in churches that have been divided from adults. It raises serious questions as to the entire philosophy behind youth ministries.

Disclaimer:It is sponsored in part by the National Center for Family Integrated Worship.

It is certainly worth the time.

George

Hopefully I can get it to stream from the ipad to the apple tv box. We will watch it tonight, it looks interesting.

As I'm thinking on this I'm reminded of a couple of camp meetings near here and near each other. One of them has historically kept the youth and the adults seperate. They all share the same camp at the same time, it's just that the youth have their own programs and the adults steer clear to a certain extent, preferring to stay to themselves. I don't see many youth returning and staying around as they get older.

The other camp has made a conscious effort at integration, the youth are encouraged and applauded for interaction with the adults. They even give out prizes when it is noticed that a youth went out of his or her way to interact. Midweek, there is an auction where adults purchase pictures of the youth, along with the picture is a commitment to pray for this particular young person and also we are encouraged to buy them a burger or two at the snack shack from time to time. I've got a pretty good collection of pictures and I remember them in prayer well past the week of camp. I'm headed down there this Saturday with the sound system. The youth are putting on their third annual "all day sing" event where they raise money and awareness for the camp. All of the counselors have come from the youth program, many on the camp board grew up at camp and are actively involved, it's pretty exciting.

[Billy Cox]

Divided the Movie

It explores the idea of what happens to the youth in churches that have been divided from adults. It raises serious questions as to the entire philosophy behind youth ministries.

Disclaimer:It is sponsored in part by the National Center for Family Integrated Worship.

It is certainly worth the time.

George

So you're saying that Youth Specialties and Group Publishing didn't underwrite a movie questioning the entire prevailing philosophy of youth ministry?? Shocking!!

[Susan Unger]

Last night, I recounted my post here with my wife. At first she was questioning the details, then as things started to come together in the time line in her head, all of a sudden she said, "your right." "Danny had a completely different experience than Josh did, and here I was being thankful because in that church I could worship without worrying about Danny behaving." Hopefully we aren't changing churches for a long, long time, we have decided though that "childrens church" is out, even if we are just visiting somewhere.

I know that their kids' behavior goes through peoples' minds when they are in church. And it does seem like some congregations don't have a kid friendly mentality. One lady I spoke to when she visited a neighboring church said that people kept coming up to her to tell her that they have a toddler class and wouldn't she'd be happier with them there [or words to that effect]. She felt like her kids weren't wanted. But afterwards, these same people came up to her commenting on how well behaved they were. I know at my church for those few parents that keep their young kids in church, the kids have learned over time how to sit pretty much quietly.

[Billy Cox]

As I'm thinking on this I'm reminded of a couple of camp meetings near here and near each other. One of them has historically kept the youth and the adults seperate. They all share the same camp at the same time, it's just that the youth have their own programs and the adults steer clear to a certain extent, preferring to stay to themselves. I don't see many youth returning and staying around as they get older.

The other camp has made a conscious effort at integration, the youth are encouraged and applauded for interaction with the adults. They even give out prizes when it is noticed that a youth went out of his or her way to interact. Midweek, there is an auction where adults purchase pictures of the youth, along with the picture is a commitment to pray for this particular young person and also we are encouraged to buy them a burger or two at the snack shack from time to time. I've got a pretty good collection of pictures and I remember them in prayer well past the week of camp. I'm headed down there this Saturday with the sound system. The youth are putting on their third annual "all day sing" event where they raise money and awareness for the camp. All of the counselors have come from the youth program, many on the camp board grew up at camp and are actively involved, it's pretty exciting.

One of the books I read while in seminary was Will Our Children Have Faith by John Westerhoff. He is very much an advocate of intergenerational church activities, not to the exclusion of age-specific activities, but with an eye toward making sure that children see adults modeling the beliefs that we hope to transmit.

On one hand, I can see that a totally age-segregated program is likely to be a generational disaster slowly unfolding. On the other hand I can see that if evangelism is everything in youth ministry, youth leaders wouldn't want to commit marketing suicide by sending the teens into 'big church' to sing the boring adult songs and listen to a boring adult sermon.

[Jim Chabot]

One of the books I read while in seminary was Will Our Children Have Faith by John Westerhoff. He is very much an advocate of intergenerational church activities, not to the exclusion of age-specific activities, but with an eye toward making sure that children see adults modeling the beliefs that we hope to transmit.

On one hand, I can see that a totally age-segregated program is likely to be a generational disaster slowly unfolding. On the other hand I can see that if evangelism is everything in youth ministry, youth leaders wouldn't want to commit marketing suicide by sending the teens into 'big church' to sing the boring adult songs and listen to a boring adult sermon.

That's why we make sure that the songs aren't boring! I generally have an explanation for the history of a song a couple of times a month, I've noticed that the younger people seem to pay the most attention. And we have a couple of teens that I let challenge me. Once a month or so, I ask them to pick a song, then I'll spend a couple of weeks listening to it endlessly on the ipod until I've got it down. Makes a difference to them that I'm willing to learn it right for them, and the adults seem to appreciate the interaction as well.

I'm guessing that sermon prep toward an integrated audience can be every bit as successful. Over the years I've had the pleasure of hearing Jorge Barros preach many times. I've noticed that he holds the attention of kids and old folks equally. His sermons are generally on a simple easily followed subject laced with some pretty deep study. I think it can be done. Just like music, the preacher has to care for love and minister to the folks he preaches to. Nobody cares how smart the preacher is or how well the song leader can sing. They respond to love, it pays no attention to age.

[Kevin Rector]

I remember Kami Tuenning making a similar observation. I forget the details but those who went off to children's church didn't seem to stay in church as adults vs. those that did in her family. I know that I fit this pattern. I was in the adults' service starting at a young age [4th grade] and even younger for Sunday night church [no child care] and my committment to God and church is VERY strong.

I'm guessing all the speculation about why kids stay or leave is very anecdotal. On Sunday I said goodbye to my parents when we got out of the car and said hello again when church was over, until I was a teen. My commitment to God and church is also VERY strong. I think it depends a lot on the person and myriad of other variables.

[Nate Pruitt]

One of the books I read while in seminary was Will Our Children Have Faith by John Westerhoff. He is very much an advocate of intergenerational church activities, not to the exclusion of age-specific activities, but with an eye toward making sure that children see adults modeling the beliefs that we hope to transmit.

On one hand, I can see that a totally age-segregated program is likely to be a generational disaster slowly unfolding. On the other hand I can see that if evangelism is everything in youth ministry, youth leaders wouldn't want to commit marketing suicide by sending the teens into 'big church' to sing the boring adult songs and listen to a boring adult sermon.

First, wow, I hadn't foreseen my comments leading us this way when I first posted them, but this may be a fairer conversation to have than a mother's work being at home or at a job.

Now in response to the quote above- I truly agree, Billy. Granted I studied youth ministry in college, and still want to do youth ministry (though we lack that particular demographic at my church with my 5 year old daughter being the closest in age on one side and my 26 year old wife the closest on the other, haha). I think youth should have specific times that are geared toward them because developmentally they are seeking and exploring what it means to be "independent" even though they do that within the structure of a community of teens and adults. Part of developing independence is gaining experience and I think youth-led services are a great way for that to happen. A youth ministry that builds toward uniting with the congregation as a whole in a recurring manner creates an incredible relational dynamic. One thing you'll find is that in churches like that you don't have the older generations sitting around bad-mouthing young people in their Sunday School classes and the "big church" services. There are relationships that defy the media-promoted notions that youth are the scourge of society. Leave the youth in another room (or building) on your church campus and I promise there will be forms of dissent on both sides toward the other. This is simply unChristian and heartbreaking.

Now as for children's church. I'm sure many of you recall a time when kids would leave after congregational acts of worship such as the singing and offering. Doing such things now can often be considered an unnecessary risk so children are dropped off more securely before service starts. This is rather sad to me because I feel we're missing out on some great things as the Body, such as the voices of children singing praises to God. If that doesn't inspire and warm the hearts of the adults in a congregation I'm not sure much would. (Not to mention I had advanced reading skills as a kid from following along and singing hymns out of the hymnal.) I used to lead children's church once a month when I was 16 at my small church. I gave it my all, but think the kids would have been better off in the church.

Finally, it has been expressed that some of us have a hard time sitting in adult studies and services, because I doubt that Steve is alone in this. To that I say shame on pastors (myself included) for letting church come to this point. For church to be boring for anyone participating shows that somehow there's a disconnect. Where I've seen churches have a children specific time (gathering the kids to the front and doing an illustration that typically required physical items to help make the point) the common theme was that everyone, not just the kids, got the most from that object lesson. My pastor and I have discussed this at length, because we've both experienced that a five minute object lesson often has more "stick" to it than any 40 minute lecture. Very few people have their greatest strength in auditory learning and that is greatly declining in our visual society. Maybe the key for all generations to remain in the Church and engaged is to see the Church at work collectively.

[Lucas Finch]

Before this turns into a hyperbole fest against youth ministry, I suppose that, as a youth pastor, I should jump in here.

First of all, one of my biggest pet peeves in ministry is segregated worship services. When the community gathers for corporate worship, it should be the whole community: children, teens, college age, young couples, middle aged, elderly. Everyone. My church has a separate children's church, and I am not a fan at all. At this point it is kind of ingrained in the culture, though, so until the participants in our worship services learn how to effectively integrate children, I view it as an "evil" that I have to tolerate. When I lead music or preach, though, I absolutely love hearing the sound of a baby cry or seeing children bounce around.

I will not work for a church that tries to have segregated teen worship services that run at the same time as the main worship service. About a year ago my senior pastor asked me if I had any interested in leading such a teen service, and I told him absolutely not. It hasn't been brought up since, and I think that we are doing a pretty good job integrating our teens into the regular service (though we could do better; it's a work in progress).

However, I do think that there is value in having settings that are more age specific. My mid-week youth group meeting allows me to connect with teens that are just flat not going to connect with us any other way. Hopefully through the connection they can ultimately be integrated into the larger church, but we've gotta start somewhere. I also think that there is value in having Sunday school classes and small groups geared to specific age groups as maturity level often makes a difference in how people learn and interact. At the same time, though, I think that there is also some value in integrated small groups, depending on what the specific plans and goals of the groups are.

So in summery, I certainly do not like a lot of what happens under the main heading of "youth ministry", but that does not mean that all "youth ministry" is bad. In my 12+ years of doing youth ministry, I have seen a number of teens that had no family connection with the church become connected with youth ministry being the starting point. Let's not through the baby out with the bath water.

[Nate Pruitt]

I'm guessing all the speculation about why kids stay or leave is very anecdotal. On Sunday I said goodbye to my parents when we got out of the car and said hello again when church was over, until I was a teen. My commitment to God and church is also VERY strong. I think it depends a lot on the person and myriad of other variables.

Eh, you're much more of the exception than the rule, though, Kevin. But I doubt this is the first time someone has pointed that out to you.

[Nate Pruitt]

I believe we are in agreement here, Lucas. Also, I think a lot of the conversation has dealt more with children's church. Teens take a much larger amount of influence from their peers than kids do, whereas kids gain much more influence from their parents than teens do. Obviously there is a certain amount of influence from both peers and parents in both age ranges, but to see worshiping adults as a child carries much more weight. This is part of the reason why children and teens from unchurched families need adoptive families, not just friends, to be models of the life of worship (and, yes, this does include more involvement than the occasional Sunday morning). We're still, collectively, asking the right questions here- and it seems that you have already worked through many of these questions to develop your youth ministry in the way you have.

[Kevin Rector]

Eh, you're much more of the exception than the rule, though, Kevin. But I doubt this is the first time someone has pointed that out to you.

Eh, maybe I am, and maybe I'm not... that's my point... all these people with all these opinions are just speculating. It's entirely possible that the kids from my youth group that walked away from God would have done so even if we had a fully integrated church. The fact is the way that leads to life is narrow and few find it... I think those who grow up in church have a better chance, but many will still choose to live for themselves rather than God.

[Susan Unger]

I'm guessing all the speculation about why kids stay or leave is very anecdotal. On Sunday I said goodbye to my parents when we got out of the car and said hello again when church was over, until I was a teen. My commitment to God and church is also VERY strong. I think it depends a lot on the person and myriad of other variables.

I'm sure it does. My thoughts are still in the "pondering" stage. And not having children of my own I think the thoughts will probably remain in the pondering stage.

[Susan Unger]

Not to mention I had advanced reading skills as a kid from following along and singing hymns out of the hymnal

I liked your whole post. Just wanted to highlight the above. I noticed that too with myself. Reading and higher vocabulary were much higher for me than my contemporaries. I know that there are other reasons involved [parents read to me every night and I was on my own a voracious reader] but I know that regular singing out of hymns helped me. Plus, the theology of hymns stuck with me even at a very young age. That was the biggest benefit for me.

[Nate Pruitt]

Eh, maybe I am, and maybe I'm not... that's my point... all these people with all these opinions are just speculating. It's entirely possible that the kids from my youth group that walked away from God would have done so even if we had a fully integrated church. The fact is the way that leads to life is narrow and few find it... I think those who grow up in church have a better chance, but many will still choose to live for themselves rather than God.

It's true that we can't have a perfect control group for this- and even Barna couldn't create a vacuum by which to determine one single factor. However, certain trends have been noted from kids who are completely disjointed from family in worship settings. But I suppose we could also ask questions such as, "Do families that choose such churches also encourage disjointed relationships at home?" (And thus the slippery slope begins.)

[Bob Myers]

Original question: "Are children of church going stay at home moms more likely to stay in the church than children of moms that have a career outside of the home?"

I've enjoyed the discussion so far, even benefited from it... but I'll pose another question that revisits the original thought: "Do our* career decisions impact whether our children follow us in our faith?" (*decisions of both moms and dads)

... and if they do, why have I not heard a sermon or small group discussion addressing this issue in my 32 years in the church? Is challenging the decisions that take a dad or mom away from their families really taboo... or just too "judgmental"?

When I've tried to breach this topic, even in private discussion, it has invariably ended with "I/they have to work" PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

Any thoughts? (... and yes I had a career for 32 years that required frequent travel, but half way through, ended my upward climb by requesting and receiving a transfer to a position with less travel, and I've never regretted it.)

[Craig Laughlin]

Original question: "Are children of church going stay at home moms more likely to stay in the church than children of moms that have a career outside of the home?"

I've enjoyed the discussion so far, even benefited from it... but I'll pose another question that revisits the original thought: "Do our* career decisions impact whether our children follow us in our faith?" (*decisions of both moms and dads)

... and if they do, why have I not heard a sermon or small group discussion addressing this issue in my 32 years in the church? Is challenging the decisions that take a dad or mom away from their families really taboo... or just too "judgmental"?

When I've tried to breach this topic, even in private discussion, it has invariably ended with "I/they have to work" PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

Any thoughts? (... and yes I had a career for 32 years that required frequent travel, but half way through, ended my upward climb by requesting and receiving a transfer to a position with less travel, and I've never regretted it.)

This is an excellent question worthy of serious discussion. Maybe even a separate thread to avoid getting caught up in some of the baggage that comes with the current thread.

[Ryan Scott]

I imagine the first step is whether the kids are part of a congregation that effectively imparts a vision of the Kingdom that resonates with their imagination. It's a bit stereotypical, but if church comes off as legalistic or empty ritual, it's not likely to stick.

The second factor, of course, is their own decision about how much they're willing to allow the Holy Spirit to work in their lives.

I imagine having strong, committed Christians in their lives everyday is going to help in both of these areas; I'm not sure it can be determinative, though.