Not called to be Peculiar?

[Craig Laughlin]

It had been a long time since I had heard anyone refer to the scripture, off quoted by Holiness preachers, that we are to be a peculiar people. (1 Peter 2:9 & Titus 2:14) Growing up these verse were pretty much a "get out of jail free" card against any charge of legalism. Everything we were not supposed to do was okay because we were to be peculiar, visibly different from the rest of the word. I even heard sermons that tied this together with our witness. Our different lives would be seen by the world and they would come under conviction and want to be like us. (This is why we couldn't even be seen hanging out with undesirable people because if some unbeliever saw this it would "damage our witness") -

I got over the damage our witness a long time ago when it dawned on me that Jesus hung out with people far from God all the time. I must assume what Jesus did was by definition Holy so I decided the preachers were wrong. (or else Jesus was and that didn't seem likely)

Conversations on NN and strangely with other people had brought up the peculiar thing a couple of times lately. So I decided to look it up. Turns out the English word peculiar which we think of as strange, different or standing out from the rest is not at all what the Greek text says. - The Greek word speaks of ownership by God. Which fits the context better anyway. As far as I can tell and I'll confess I'm no Greek scholar, the idea of being different was pretty much wrong.

Maybe when the King James was written the word peculiar carried the idea of ownership, maybe they have upgraded the manuscripts since then or maybe they just got it wrong. However it works out, those preachers (unintentionally) completely missed the mark, err... boat. (Greek joke)

Side note - I had already resolved and still believe we are supposed to be different from the "world" but that has to do with living like Jesus, you know... blessing those that curse us, forgiving those that wrong us, turning the other cheek, when someone sues you give them more than the judgement... - That sort of really counter cultural stuff.

What do you think? - Does the Bible not justify being weird?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I grew up in a pretty legalistic Church of the Nazarene, and I've heard the "peculiar" line plenty of times but I never heard it as "be odd." In fact, I remember hearing the preacher say, "Some people are just peculiar, but we're only supposed to be as different from the world as Jesus is."

I remember being told as a teen that saying, "Everyone else is doing it" wasn't a reason for me to do it - but parents have been saying that to teens in a non-religious context, I imagine, since Cain and Abel (well, maybe not, since there wasn't an "everyone else" in those days - but you get my point).

I know I'll be labeled an old fuddy duddy again (and probably my use of "fuddy duddy" will enforce the label) but here's my observation: a lot of people who complain about the legalism of the Church in the 1950's and 1960's are over stating things, or remembering one isolated situation, or are refusing to see things from the context of that time and place, or are remembering that as teens they didn't get to do something "everybody else was doing" as being specific to the Church when actually it had to do with them not getting their own way.

Also, I know this topic brings out all the wounded people who blame the Church for what a very small number of people thought. However, we have to balance those situations against the experience of many, many, people who grew up loving the Church and being loved by the Church.

So, yes, I remember the "Peculiar" argument, but I don't remember it being used as a catch all for "you can't do that" - it was more "we follow Jesus and other people don't, so don't be surprised if you don't always fit in."

[Jon Bemis]

I too used to frequently hear that we are to be a "peculiar" people which I remember to have been in the vein of what we were against rather than what we are for (don't drink, don't smoke, don't chew, don't go with girls that do). This was not in the COTN, but another holiness denomination. It led to a being exposed to a lot of weirdness and a lot of legalism in my early spiritual formation. Fortunately, I also had several godly models of what love for God and love for others looked like in everyday life that I credit for keeping me from being derailed by that stuff. In answer to your question "Does the Bible not justify being weird?" I would say that if being sold out to love is weird it does.

[Susan Unger]

What do you think? - Does the Bible not justify being weird?

I believe the bible still calls us to be "weird" but not weird as we have traditionally considered it. More like "counter cultural" kind of weird through our beliefs and actions showing that all matter, not just the wealthy, powerful or popular. In other words, somelike like the Sermon on the Mount when fully lived out will make a Christian very counter cultural to the point of weirdness. Loving our enemies makes us weird in our general, secular culture. Chosing forgiveness over vengeance is weird if not horrible in our culture. Favoring and protecting the weak is weird when our human mindset says only the strong should survive. Consider 1 Corinthians 1:27 "Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful." Isn't this the weirdest thing ever? Then there is Jesus who led by serving and expected his followers to do likewise. To enter his kingdom you have to become like a child. And his kingdom is a kingdom of peace and love, not might and human power. Most humans [and Christians it seems at times in this country] find that so weird that it is unacceptable.

[Nate Pruitt]

Maybe peculiarity is a matter of our PROACTIVE obedience to God through outward loving kindness rather than being socially "weird" by not participating in certain common activities?

[Eric Frey]

Until recently, Will Willimons blog was titled "The Peculiar Prophet"

[Jon Twitchell]

I recently preached a series around the idea of being a Peculiar People... and was clear to make the point that you just made.... I Peter doesn't say that we are a "strange people," or a "weird people," but that we are a purchased possession... a people belonging to God.

Granted... if we are truly a people belonging to God, then we're probably going to be a bit peculiar in the eyes of our culture. A people belonging to God are a people who are shaped by His story... or reflect His image. But that doesn't mean we are to be weird... or to have bad fashion... or strange personality quirks.

[Craig Laughlin]

I recently preached a series around the idea of being a Peculiar People... and was clear to make the point that you just made.... I Peter doesn't say that we are a "strange people," or a "weird people," but that we are a purchased possession... a people belonging to God.

Granted... if we are truly a people belonging to God, then we're probably going to be a bit peculiar in the eyes of our culture. A people belonging to God are a people who are shaped by His story... or reflect His image. But that doesn't mean we are to be weird... or to have bad fashion... or strange personality quirks.

Yea, you and others are getting at the nuance I am after. We are clearly to to be different from the rest of the world precisely because we are His but "Peculiar" was an unfortunate translation. It conveys a certain meaning in English that was clearly not in the Greek and folks have run with the part that is not found in scripture.

Maybe this applies to the Scholarship in the pulpit thread as well. I have never preached those passages but if I had I would have run the Greek and found this out before I preached it.

[Jon Twitchell]

"Annual Meeting: A Peculiar People" - I Peter 2
"A Peculiar Commitment" - The Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep-- the Good shepherd has a peculiar commitment... we're called to have a peculiar commitment.
"A Peculiar Connection" - Vine/Branches
"A Peculiar Commandment" - Love as I have loved
"A Peculiar Condition" - In the world not of the world
"A Peculiar Commission" - Go and tell
"A Peculiar Companion" - Pentecost
E100 #1: "A Peculiar Story: The Story that Shapes Us"

So... this also belongs in the "Approaching the Lectionary" thread... but you can see that this was a lectionary-driven series... beginning the week after Easter and running through Pentecost. (Actually, the last message in the series is the transition from the Peculiar People series into the E100 series.

[Craig Laughlin]

"Annual Meeting: A Peculiar People" - I Peter 2
"A Peculiar Commitment" - The Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep-- the Good shepherd has a peculiar commitment... we're called to have a peculiar commitment.
"A Peculiar Connection" - Vine/Branches
"A Peculiar Commandment" - Love as I have loved
"A Peculiar Condition" - In the world not of the world
"A Peculiar Commission" - Go and tell
"A Peculiar Companion" - Pentecost
E100 #1: "A Peculiar Story: The Story that Shapes Us"

So... this also belongs in the "Approaching the Lectionary" thread... but you can see that this was a lectionary-driven series... beginning the week after Easter and running through Pentecost. (Actually, the last message in the series is the transition from the Peculiar People series into the E100 series.

If this was how the word was generally used I'd be all for it.

[Ryan Scott]

I use the term and the idea of being a peculiar people all the time. I never knew it supposedly came from scripture. I sort of thought of it in terms of God's intentions for the world. The idea being that humans naturally live differently than God intended - and that lifestyle has become the dominant vision for the world. Our peculiarness is simply a life lived as God intended us to live - with outrageous love for others and uncommon self-sacrifice.

[Craig Laughlin]

I use the term and the idea of being a peculiar people all the time. I never knew it supposedly came from scripture. I sort of thought of it in terms of God's intentions for the world. The idea being that humans naturally live differently than God intended - and that lifestyle has become the dominant vision for the world. Our peculiarness is simply a life lived as God intended us to live - with outrageous love for others and uncommon self-sacrifice.

I suspect your generation was much less touched by the "peculiar" word usage than mine. In fact I hadn't heard the old fashion way in a long time, then it came up several times from different sources. Your example is a great illustration of why we always need new translations. If you didn't grow up with the KJV you missed this entirely because any true translation fixed it.

[Larry Parsons]

It had been a long time since I had heard anyone refer to the scripture, off quoted by Holiness preachers, that we are to be a peculiar people. (1 Peter 2:9 & Titus 2:14) Growing up these verse were pretty much a "get out of jail free" card against any charge of legalism. Everything we were not supposed to do was okay because we were to be peculiar, visibly different from the rest of the word. I even heard sermons that tied this together with our witness. Our different lives would be seen by the world and they would come under conviction and want to be like us. (This is why we couldn't even be seen hanging out with undesirable people because if some unbeliever saw this it would "damage our witness") -

I got over the damage our witness a long time ago when it dawned on me that Jesus hung out with people far from God all the time. I must assume what Jesus did was by definition Holy so I decided the preachers were wrong. (or else Jesus was and that didn't seem likely)

Conversations on NN and strangely with other people had brought up the peculiar thing a couple of times lately. So I decided to look it up. Turns out the English word peculiar which we think of as strange, different or standing out from the rest is not at all what the Greek text says. - The Greek word speaks of ownership by God. Which fits the context better anyway. As far as I can tell and I'll confess I'm no Greek scholar, the idea of being different was pretty much wrong.

Maybe when the King James was written the word peculiar carried the idea of ownership, maybe they have upgraded the manuscripts since then or maybe they just got it wrong. However it works out, those preachers (unintentionally) completely missed the mark, err... boat. (Greek joke)

Side note - I had already resolved and still believe we are supposed to be different from the "world" but that has to do with living like Jesus, you know... blessing those that curse us, forgiving those that wrong us, turning the other cheek, when someone sues you give them more than the judgement... - That sort of really counter cultural stuff.

What do you think? - Does the Bible not justify being weird?

I had pastor who was alway claiming that he was crazy for Jesus and lot of people thought he was.All three of his sons our pastor now.
thanks
Larry

[Billy Cox]

Yea, you and others are getting at the nuance I am after. We are clearly to to be different from the rest of the world precisely because we are His but "Peculiar" was an unfortunate translation. It conveys a certain meaning in English that was clearly not in the Greek and folks have run with the part that is not found in scripture.

Maybe this applies to the Scholarship in the pulpit thread as well. I have never preached those passages but if I had I would have run the Greek and found this out before I preached it.

No amount of Greek background will rescue the word from its most common usage. 'Peculiar' is how the neighbors describe the nice old man who kept to himself until he was found to be a secret cannibal with a liking for young Asian boys.

Unless we're going to play up our self-professed elite status as the Navy SEALs of the evangelical world, we should probably retire the 'peculiar' language. Spiritual pride has never served us very well anyway.

[Ed DiSante]

Dr Ralph Earle told a class that I was in at NTS that he was glad to be on the NIV translation team just because so many Nazarenes took the call to be "God's peculiar people" literally and he wanted to to see it changed it to it's real meeting-that of being chosen or called out as the modern versions indicate.

[Billy Cox]

Dr Ralph Earle told a class that I was in at NTS that he was glad to be on the NIV translation team just because so many Nazarenes took the call to be "God's peculiar people" literally and he wanted to to see it changed it to it's real meeting-that of being chosen or called out as the modern versions indicate.

Maybe he should have paid similar attention when the committee translated 'flesh' (sarx) as 'sinful nature' in Paul's letters.

[Craig Laughlin]

Dr Ralph Earle told a class that I was in at NTS that he was glad to be on the NIV translation team just because so many Nazarenes took the call to be "God's peculiar people" literally and he wanted to to see it changed it to it's real meeting-that of being chosen or called out as the modern versions indicate.

Okay, so I'm slow to the party.

[Dan Henderson]

Well, I am peculiar so I am kinda hoping that's okay....

[Wilson Deaton]

I heard it preached like Craig described; connotations of oddness...

This is from memory: The Greek word literally means, "one's own." Thus, "peculiar behavior" is behavior that a person has, that other people don't have. It is easy to see how we shifted the meaning from "one's own" to "weird." The Greek word was, "idios," and gives us both idiosyncracy (one's own) and idiot (weird)...

This is actually one of my favorite words to talk about when discussing how language evolves and why KJV needed to be updated...

Wilson

[Dale Cozby]

I did a word study on both the greek and the english word. The middle english seems to suggest the owner has made the object unique or has identified the object as special in his eyes. Like saying I have a unique pet dog. It is a one off because....

My kids are special because....
My children are special to me because.....
It appears the peculiar is in the eye of the beholder, the owner that loves the object of his affection as singular.
He bought us because to him we are special. He saw something in us that was special to him.
I know when I call my kids "special"....I have a particular use of that word meaning "peculiar" too.

perhaps behaviors of selflessness, and able to love others as Christ loved us is that special something?

[Ryan Pugh]

Side note - I had already resolved and still believe we are supposed to be different from the "world" but that has to do with living like Jesus, you know... blessing those that curse us, forgiving those that wrong us, turning the other cheek, when someone sues you give them more than the judgement... - That sort of really counter cultural stuff.

What do you think? - Does the Bible not justify being weird?

I talk about the peculiarality of the Church and the Kingdom all the time, for exactly the reasons you say. The problem is that much of the church, perhaps especially in America, has failed to be peculiar in this way and has instead taken hold of a false peculiarality built on moralism and pharasaical holiness. Yes, we are supposed to be weird, just not for the reasons we are known for being weird for.

The holiness of the Pharisees repelled the broken of the world - the prostitutes, the tax collectors of the day, the sinners. The broken didn't want anything to do with the kingdom of the Pharisees. But the holiness of Jesus attracted the broken to himself, where they experienced love and grace, and they very much wanted to be part of that kingdom.

Which peculiarality, which holiness, are we known for?

[Todd Erickson]

"Peculiar", from Craig's usage, tends to get used alongside statements like "the world hates and persecutes us, so we know we're doing the right thing" after the church is hateful and persecuting of other people. It tends to get used as a validation and rationalization.

I wonder how much of this comes down to role misidentification...we identify, as Americans, with the Jews, when we should identify with the Romans. We identify with sinners rather than as a new creation. We identify sanctified with "fixed", rather than "continually redeemed by the power of Christ within this world".

We tend to view so much of this as static, rather than relational. If I am peculiar in a relational sense, then it is through something that I am actively doing and being within the world that identifies me as different, special...

The way that we are called to do so is through love, compassion, forgiveness, and a life-defying faith that the Spirit continues to work miracles in our daily lives. This is not, generally, how we live. So, indeed, our peculiarity is an offense...but it's because we're just as offensive, in our own way, as everybody else, and yet we demand the right to be different and identified as different.

[Sarah Smith]

Sometimes maybe we need a little of that "peculiar" that so bothered some growing up.

We were vacationing this past week, doing ghost towns and Anasazi ruins and jeep trails and just generally enjoying camping.

But--honestly--the, um, attire of some of the gents and ladies getting out of cars with fish symbols on them and pro Jesus bumper stickers left some room for improvement.

As did the language--especially the frequent usage of the f bomb.

And then there were the Mennonite ladies from Penn. we encountered at one ghost town.

Comparatively very "peculiar" in their dress and speech.

Odd thing was, other tourists were questioning them about their faith and it was so neat to see people really stop and listen as a stranger explained very clearly salvation by grace through faith, and then explained their lifestyle as radical obedience but not necessary for salvation.

Their refusal to worry about "bad fashion" and "being relevant" bought them the opportunity for some serious evangelism.

Yeah, maybe peculiar has some good points.

[Billy Cox]

But--honestly--the, um, attire of some of the gents and ladies getting out of cars with fish symbols on them and pro Jesus bumper stickers left some room for improvement.

As did the language--especially the frequent usage of the f bomb.

That's why I don't put a fish symbol or Jesus bumper stickers on my car.

[Nate Pruitt]

That's why I don't put a fish symbol or Jesus bumper stickers on my car.

My aggressive driving has always been reason enough for me.

[Wilson Deaton]

That's why I don't put a fish symbol or Jesus bumper stickers on my car.

As much as I hate the thought of you dropping the f bomb, I hope you weren't referring to your, "um, attire."

Wilson

[Nate Pruitt]

As much as I hate the thought of you dropping the f bomb, I hope you weren't referring to your, "um, attire."

Come on, Wilson, sing along with me, "Who wears short shorts? Billy wears short shorts!"

[Billy Cox]

Come on, Wilson, sing along with me, "Who wears short shorts? Billy wears short shorts!"

Nah, I prefer leather pants with a peek-a-boo behind.

[Marsha Lynn]

That's some good preaching, Ryan. Thank you.

Interesting, isn't it, that this type of thinking will make you peculiar in both the world and the church!

I talk about the peculiarality of the Church and the Kingdom all the time, for exactly the reasons you say. The problem is that much of the church, perhaps especially in America, has failed to be peculiar in this way and has instead taken hold of a false peculiarality built on moralism and pharasaical holiness. Yes, we are supposed to be weird, just not for the reasons we are known for being weird for.

The holiness of the Pharisees repelled the broken of the world - the prostitutes, the tax collectors of the day, the sinners. The broken didn't want anything to do with the kingdom of the Pharisees. But the holiness of Jesus attracted the broken to himself, where they experienced love and grace, and they very much wanted to be part of that kingdom.

Which peculiarality, which holiness, are we known for?

[Billy Cox]

I know I'll be labeled an old fuddy duddy again (and probably my use of "fuddy duddy" will enforce the label) but here's my observation: a lot of people who complain about the legalism of the Church in the 1950's and 1960's are over stating things, or remembering one isolated situation, or are refusing to see things from the context of that time and place, or are remembering that as teens they didn't get to do something "everybody else was doing" as being specific to the Church when actually it had to do with them not getting their own way.

Growing up, I was aware of the legalistic side of the denomination, but didn't ever find myself on the wrong side of it. Congregations that I grew up in were generally pretty healthy as far as I recall and I managed to avoid any spiritual abuse. It also didn't hurt that I was a smart, talented kid that was a model church-kid who made my respective congregations look pretty darn good at district events.

I am also aware that some people didn't fare as well as I did, and I find your dismissive words about those 'wounded people' quite disappointing, especially coming from one of the denomination's shepherds.

[Benjamin Burch]

Hauerwas is once again helpful....

I know Evangelicals think that they're paying a price simply being identified as Christians, but let them think about, for example, (that) being a Christian puts them at odds with war.... and if it puts them at odds with war, that means they are going to be much less acceptable than they think they are. They may think that being against abortion or something like that puts them in tension with the social order, but try being against war. Or, better yet, try being against greed. - Stanley Hauerwas

[Billy Cox]

Hauerwas is once again helpful....

I know Evangelicals think that they're paying a price simply being identified as Christians, but let them think about, for example, (that) being a Christian puts them at odds with war.... and if it puts them at odds with war, that means they are going to be much less acceptable than they think they are. They may think that being against abortion or something like that puts them in tension with the social order, but try being against war. Or, better yet, try being against greed. - Stanley Hauerwas

When you put it like that, we look like cheerleaders for mainstream secular culture.