Is it possible to "Measure" your own spiritual growth?

[David Graham]

Someone threw me a question right out of left field at church today?

"Can we measure our own spiritual growth?"

So I got to thinking..... if growth is "relational", i.e. based upon my relationship with Christ and other members of his body, how do you measure it?

It's a bit like trying to measure "Christlikeness"...... in the end does it boil down to what we do? Should we even consider measuring our spiritual growth at all?

I know that its a question I haven't considered asking prior to now?

So, what do you think...... can we measure spiritual growth?
Cheers, Dave.

[Gene Tatsch]

Excellent thought-provoker!
If there's no "measure", then we're adrift in happy talk, with our own notions free to run amok.
That said, all human measures must fail to fully address Christlikeness.
Thanks for sharing this challenging question!

[Jim Chabot]

Very thought provoking indeed! I would say yes we can, I believe that as we look back upon our lives and think of how we used to be, or even how we would have handled situations in our past, I think that we can gauge whether we have grown, or not.

I should add that the yes gets much stronger if the alternative is to submit to someone else measuring our growth.

[John Reilly]

Yes. The frequency of spiritual disciplines is one way to measure spiritual growth. Spiritual growth will be reflected in the frequency of employing spiritual practices. At a clergy retreat, I used a survey listing many of the Wesleyan spiritual disciplines and had colleagues rank their frequency in employing these disciplines. The premise is that spiritual growth results from the frequency of a person engaging in spiritual practices.

Also the fruit of the spirit is evidence of spiritual growth. Spiritual growth can be measured by the evidence of "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control (Gal.5: 22-25) being displayed in a Christian's life. Spiritual maturity can be measured by observing the frequency of the fruit of the spirit being displayed in contrast to the display of the fruit of the flesh (Gal. 5: 18-21).

[Ian Gentles]

I would say, you can try but will fail. How can we know the depth of our own hearts? We can fool ourselfs, and others, but God knows what we are really like, often when we dont.
I'm a wretched sinner, and God knows how wretched. I'm saved by grace alone.

[Gene Tatsch]

... frequency of spiritual disciplines is one way to measure spiritual growth...

Also the fruit of the spirit is evidence of spiritual growth. Spiritual growth can be measured by the evidence of "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control (Gal.5: 22-25) being displayed in a Christian's life. Spiritual maturity can be measured by observing the frequency of the fruit of the spirit being displayed in contrast to the display of the fruit of the flesh (Gal. 5: 18-21).

?the disciplines would be a measure of we're doing towards growth?
The evidences in progress of the fruit of the Spirit (vs the fruit of the flesh) would be a measure of what we're doing combined with what the Spirit is doing in us? All to be discerned in listening to the Spirit?

[John Reilly]

Paul writes in Phil 4:5 "Let your gentleness to evident to all." This is a measurable quality of spiritual maturity. Paul says in Eph. 4 "make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit ..." and "... bear with one another in love ..." I think these are measurable aspect of spiritual growth and maturity. The accountability of spiritual growth was held in small groups, classes and societies during the rise of the Methodist movement. The contemporary church would do well to provide small groups as places of accountability for spiritual growth. Speaking the truth in love means offering one another non abrasive feedback on our spiritual journeys.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Way back when in Grass Valley we were discussing how we could measure the church's effectiveness in making disciples. We had a gentleman who is a retired professor of sociology who suggested yearly self-assessment questionnaires. We never developed them, but I thought the idea sound, after initial objection that people will fudge. (I think that they become self-correcting with spiritual growth)

[Dennis M. Scott]

Back in the day when McGovern and the real CG school was attempting to address this issue, they struggled. They were brought to this question by recognition that making disciples was not affirmed merely by local churches having larger attendance. Some suggested that time in prayer, and scripture memorization might somehow be involved, but others questioned those as measuring instruments.

We are encouraged to "work out our own salvation", and that frequently is understood to be a process rather than a quick "sinners' prayer" kind of thing. Seems to imply progressiveness.

Honest accountability to others as in Wesley's class participation would seem to be a little more likely effective. Objectivity is sorta difficult in any "self evaluation." No part of the body thrives separated from the rest of the body.

[David Graham]

Thanks everyone for your responses.... I particularly liked the idea of an annual self assessment questionaire, and perhaps relating this towards how we exhibit the "fruits" of the Spirit. Yet such an evaluation needs to be done within the context of a community of faith to gain some sort of objectivity.........I'll suggest these ideas to my parishoner who asked the question when I next see them.......

All of this has certainly given me a lot of food for thought.

[Marsha Lynn]

Way back when in Grass Valley we were discussing how we could measure the church's effectiveness in making disciples. We had a gentleman who is a retired professor of sociology who suggested yearly self-assessment questionnaires. We never developed them, but I thought the idea sound, after initial objection that people will fudge. (I think that they become self-correcting with spiritual growth)

So under this model, self-evaluations would always score high. Initially, because of self-deception, and later because of actual spirituality.

Or maybe spiritual growth would actually result in lower scores on self-evaluations? Do we rate ourselves more honestly and become less concerned about looking good as we grow spiritually?

Back in the day when McGovern and the real CG school was attempting to address this issue, they struggled. They were brought to this question by recognition that making disciples was not affirmed merely by local churches having larger attendance. Some suggested that time in prayer, and scripture memorization might somehow be involved, but others questioned those as measuring instruments...

Particularly if such things are regularly measured and the results used to assess spiritual growth. If what you measure is what becomes important to you, then measuring time in prayer or scripture memorization will make those things important to those craving high marks. However, they don't automatically lead to spiritual growth. When they find their source in spiritual hunger, they do. However, when getting high marks on the evaluation is the motivation, they become less reliable measures.

Honest accountability to others as in Wesley's class participation would seem to be a little more likely effective. Objectivity is sorta difficult in any "self evaluation." No part of the body thrives separated from the rest of the body.

In my experience, honest accountability is rare in our society and generally a sign, in and of itself, of unusual spiritual maturity. I'm not sure how it can be used as an evaluation tool for those who are not spiritually mature enough to offer their hearts up for examination. And that's beside the fact that the church doesn't have a real good record for discerning and sharing the values of God (as opposed to its own self-interests) when evaluating its members.

OK, having questioned these two suggestions, I suppose I should address the original question. How can I measure spiritual growth in myself? I like the concept of growth, implying stepping beyond where I used to be, as opposed to measurement against an absolute standard.

Maybe any self-evaluation should start with absolutes and then switch to relative measurements.

Example for initial evaluation:
On a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is never and 5 is very often:
1. I am easily angered by wrongs done to me.
2. I respond with kindness to the unkind.
3. I see value in every person who crosses my path.
4. I treat the weak with gentleness.

Example for subsequent evaluation:
1. Compared to a year ago, I think I am (more, about the same, less) easily angered by wrongs done to me.
2. Compared to a year ago, I think I respond (more often, about the same, less often) with kindness to the unkind.
3. Compared to a year ago, I think I am (more, about the same, less) able to see value in every person who crosses my path.
4. Compared to a year ago, I am (more, about the same, less) gentle with the weak.

Even if I am less than honest with myself in the beginning, I think it would be helpful to annually review a list of the values of the Kingdom of God as drawn from the Bible and think about whether they are more or less reflected in my life. Bible reading/memorization and prayer may be tools to get there, but they should not be the goal in and of themselves.

Actually, as a compulsive record-keeper, this idea is quite appealing to me. Maybe I already have that tool in place in the form of a personal mission statement with multiple "helper goals" under the broad categories of loving God and loving others. One of those goals is seeing people. (Jesus saw the multitudes ... and individuals, such as the widow woman grieving the death of her only son.) Am I better at seeing people today than when I formulated that goal? Yes, I honestly think I am, in no small part because of having formulated it, and periodically reviewed it, as a goal.

Marsha

[Craig Laughlin]

Back in the day when McGovern and the real CG school was attempting to address this issue, they struggled. They were brought to this question by recognition that making disciples was not affirmed merely by local churches having larger attendance. Some suggested that time in prayer, and scripture memorization might somehow be involved, but others questioned those as measuring instruments.

We are encouraged to "work out our own salvation", and that frequently is understood to be a process rather than a quick "sinners' prayer" kind of thing. Seems to imply progressiveness.

Honest accountability to others as in Wesley's class participation would seem to be a little more likely effective. Objectivity is sorta difficult in any "self evaluation." No part of the body thrives separated from the rest of the body.

Very well said.

I think your last two sentences get at the question. If the personal evaluation is so that the local church can then evaluate itself this is nearly an impossible task, in part because it reduces folks to "data" to be input. This mechanical approach to the church, which I think is organic, is not only unhelpful but can actually be misleading. (In my opinion)

On the other hand, I think and practice, yearly personal evaluation and the only standard has to be "How much more am I like Jesus today than one year ago" While I appreciate spiritual practices they are themselves a means rather than an end. Keeping my evaluation person helps a lot with the honesty part. Inviting my accountability partner into the process helps with objectivity. The goal for me is not so much to peg myself on some sort of scale (very modern way of looking at spirituality) but rather to bring encouragement and celebration for places I have grown and look honestly at some areas that I want to invite the Holy Spirit to work on in my life. Over the years God has worked on different things at different times. The key for me is making sure I am continuing to grow. It is very easy as a pastor to confuse what is happening in my ministry with what is happening in me spiritually and it cuts both ways. (Naznet has given me some oppertunities to grow over the years )

FYI - I also do this with my professional life. - How am I doing? Am I advancing the mission and vision of my church, how have I grown as a leader. (In the broad sense of the word)

[Randy Wise]

Someone threw me a question right out of left field at church today?

"Can we measure our own spiritual growth?"

So I got to thinking..... if growth is "relational", i.e. based upon my relationship with Christ and other members of his body, how do you measure it?

It's a bit like trying to measure "Christlikeness"...... in the end does it boil down to what we do? Should we even consider measuring our spiritual growth at all?

I know that its a question I haven't considered asking prior to now?

So, what do you think...... can we measure spiritual growth?
Cheers, Dave.

Wouldn't you liked to have known/understand as a teen what you know/understand today? So measurement to me would be in terms of "wisdom gained" rather then stating spiritual growth though to some they may mean the same thing. We have been given "fullness" in Christ. He is us and we in Him. So in that we lack no spiritual thing. Ref 2Peter 1 Teachers/evangelists/preachers can gain wisdom as they teach and testify to others as those who feel guided from above on "occasion" should understand even though we do use/study and preach/testify from the written testimony as our source (Hopefully)


Randy

[Billy Cox]

So under this model, self-evaluations would always score high. Initially, because of self-deception, and later because of actual spirituality.

Or maybe spiritual growth would actually result in lower scores on self-evaluations? Do we rate ourselves more honestly and become less concerned about looking good as we grow spiritually?

Yeah, you have to wonder how effective a self-evaluation is when everybody gives themselves high ratings on the humility scale.

[Billy Cox]

Someone threw me a question right out of left field at church today?

"Can we measure our own spiritual growth?"

So I got to thinking..... if growth is "relational", i.e. based upon my relationship with Christ and other members of his body, how do you measure it?

It's a bit like trying to measure "Christlikeness"...... in the end does it boil down to what we do? Should we even consider measuring our spiritual growth at all?

I know that its a question I haven't considered asking prior to now?

So, what do you think...... can we measure spiritual growth?

I think that the attempt to measure spiritual growth springs either from insecurity or from an institutional impulse to categorize and manage people.

'Can' we measure spiritual growth? Of course we can. It's just a matter of deciding which evidences and milestones to consider and which ones to ignore.

The better questions are 'why?' and 'what do we hope to gain?'

[Marsha Lynn]

I think that the attempt to measure spiritual growth springs either from insecurity or from an institutional impulse to categorize and manage people.

'Can' we measure spiritual growth? Of course we can. It's just a matter of deciding which evidences and milestones to consider and which ones to ignore.

The better questions are 'why?' and 'what do we hope to gain?'

If spiritual growth is a personal goal, then finding a way to measure it lets us know if we are investing our time and energy well. If I memorize long passages of scripture does it result in spiritual growth? If I pray four hours a day does it result in spiritual growth? How about if I attend revival services? Or participate in "Walk to Emmaus"?

From a community point of view, it would be nice if we could ask people, "Is what we are doing here resulting in spiritual growth for you?" and give them tools to evaluate their progress toward Christlikeness.

One could also argue that it is better to measure our effectiveness as a church by asking questions about how we are coming along in areas such as kindness, gentleness, mercy, forgiveness, and compassion than to ask how many people we invited to church last week or how many times we presented the "Roman Road to Salvation" to strangers or how many more people we had in Sunday School this year than last.

[John Kennedy]

Yeah, you have to wonder how effective a self-evaluation is when everybody gives themselves high ratings on the humility scale.

That reminds me of a man I knew in a church in Texas. He not only felt superbly qualified to measure his own spiritual growh - he was ready and willing to do the same for evrybody else (whether they wanted it or not). The others didn't usually score too highly.

On one occasion, someone testified that humility in a Christian was was something that the person who had it was unaware of but that its presence was evident to everyone else. This amounted to such gross doctrinal error that the gentleman in question stood up and dispute the other's testimony. "I'm humble and I know it, bless God!'

Alas, earth no longer has the benefit of his obvious spiritual superiority. He was called upstairs, presumably as the Deity's chief counsel and his homegoing furnishes the perfect example of a win/win situation for all concerned.

[Dale Cozby]

That reminds me of a man I knew in a church in Texas. He not only felt superbly qualified to measure his own spiritual growh - he was ready and willing to do the same for evrybody else (whether they wanted it or not). The others didn't usually score too highly.

On one occasion, someone testified that humility in a Christian was was something that the person who had it was unaware of but that its presence was evident to everyone else. This amounted to such gross doctrinal error that the gentleman in question stood up and dispute the other's testimony. "I'm humble and I know it, bless God!'

Alas, earth no longer has the benefit of his obvious spiritual superiority. He was called upstairs, presumably is the Deity's chief counsel and his homegoing furnishes the perfect of a win/win situation for all concerned.

I think humility is knowing your value but denying yourself and placing others first. Humility isn't self-loathing or self-ridicule or even the false humility brought about by self-justification in proudly knowing and claiming you are a sinner saved by God's grace. Rather it is knowing God loved you so much he gave His life for you and then expects the same from you for others. Humility is self love denied for the grace of others. Humility is an act of the will, the laying down of one's life for the good of others, it is (by an act of the will not a lack of self-esteem) to treat others as better than yourself.

AND being from Texas...I should know.

[Billy Cox]

If spiritual growth is a personal goal, then finding a way to measure it lets us know if we are investing our time and energy well. If I memorize long passages of scripture does it result in spiritual growth? If I pray four hours a day does it result in spiritual growth? How about if I attend revival services? Or participate in "Walk to Emmaus"?

From a community point of view, it would be nice if we could ask people, "Is what we are doing here resulting in spiritual growth for you?" and give them tools to evaluate their progress toward Christlikeness.

One could also argue that it is better to measure our effectiveness as a church by asking questions about how we are coming along in areas such as kindness, gentleness, mercy, forgiveness, and compassion than to ask how many people we invited to church last week or how many times we presented the "Roman Road to Salvation" to strangers or how many more people we had in Sunday School this year than last.

Here is a rerun of what I said, with the operative phrase in bold:

I think that the attempt to measure spiritual growth springs either from insecurity or from an institutional impulse to categorize and manage people.

There are valid organizational reasons for the congregation to take our spiritual pulse, I just don't think it's very helpful beyond that.

[John Kennedy]

Dale-
What I was trying to say was that people who ae genuinely humble don't go around testifying about it.

[Nate Pruitt]

Just to throw a wrench in things- how much do you think our collective perception of God responding to us (in the ways we desire) would impact our understanding of our spiritual health?

i.e. "If God has answered prayer how I want then I must be doing well spiritually." Versus "I did not get the result I desired from prayer and wonder what I need to change in my spiritual life to receive the answer to my prayer."

[Gina Stevenson]

Just to throw a wrench in things- how much do you think our collective perception of God responding to us (in the ways we desire) would impact our understanding of our spiritual health?

i.e. "If God has answered prayer how I want then I must be doing well spiritually." Versus "I did not get the result I desired from prayer and wonder what I need to change in my spiritual life to receive the answer to my prayer."

Regarding this, it does sometimes seem that ~~ to help them keep them from getting too discouraged before they are even barely started ~~ we have watched a greater percentage of new believers' prayers being answered than of those who have been around for a good while ... those seeming rather to get more testing via this vehicle than those new to the faith.

... or does it also include our faith sometimes not being as child-like (no, not childish) as it once was and, skepticism setting in, answers are thus delayed? Or, sometimes a combo of these two issues?

[Paul DeBaufer]

Just to throw a wrench in things- how much do you think our collective perception of God responding to us (in the ways we desire) would impact our understanding of our spiritual health?

i.e. "If God has answered prayer how I want then I must be doing well spiritually." Versus "I did not get the result I desired from prayer and wonder what I need to change in my spiritual life to receive the answer to my prayer."

St. John of the Cross seemed to say that only those who are spiritually mature get selected for the purification of the Dark Night of the Soul.

[Gina Stevenson]

St. John of the Cross seemed to say that only those who are spiritually mature get selected for the purification of the Dark Night of the Soul.

Have heard of "The Dark Night of the Soul," but has felt like the Dark Decade+ instead . . .
(long night) . . . .

[Paul DeBaufer]

Have heard of "The Dark Night of the Soul," but has felt like the Dark Decade+ instead . . .
(long night) . . . .

I know the feeling. Mother Teresa felt it all her career. Sometimes it is a very long night indeed

[Hans Deventer]

i.e. "If God has answered prayer how I want then I must be doing well spiritually." Versus "I did not get the result I desired from prayer and wonder what I need to change in my spiritual life to receive the answer to my prayer."

I think any system we try to create of prayer fails at one point.

[Craig Laughlin]

St. John of the Cross seemed to say that only those who are spiritually mature get selected for the purification of the Dark Night of the Soul.

Well that takes the shine off of spiritual maturity!

[Billy Cox]

St. John of the Cross seemed to say that only those who are spiritually mature get selected for the purification of the Dark Night of the Soul.

I wonder if spiritually maturity leads to the Dark Night or whether those who survive the Dark Night emerge with spiritual maturity at no additional charge.

It seems only a hair's breadth from the pseudo-scripture saying that God won't give you more than you can handle.

[Paul DeBaufer]

I wonder if spiritually maturity leads to the Dark Night or whether those who survive the Dark Night emerge with spiritual maturity at no additional charge.

It seems only a hair's breadth from the pseudo-scripture saying that God won't give you more than you can handle.

Don't know about the actuality, but St. John does say that the dark nights are for those who have greater spirtuality. There are two, according to John. Then we have to look at people like Mother Teresa who never had a post dark night while here on earth.

As for your second sentence, it actually is in the Qur'an. Just found that out when a Muslim friend quoted it the other day.