Enough about homosexuals, let's talk about gossips!

[Nate Pruitt]

See what I did there?

[Nate Pruitt]

There really is a thread I would like to do about this some time, in light of a Wesley sermon about that very subject, but the hard part is developing it so that we can do it appropriately and confessionally rather than recanting stories about others who aren't here to defend themselves and thus miss the point entirely.

[John Kennedy]

Son, you done stopped preachin' and gone to meddlin'.

[Paul DeBaufer]

See what I did there?

I do. I think it a good choice of topic. I see gossip as a greater threat to the church today than any of the other issues we tend to discuss here. However, I don't think we like to talk much about it. If many are like me they find the topic convicting and must face our own participation (and dare I say it, starting it.) Yes, I lower myself into gossiping from time to time. I have a hard time not listening to it. Once I've heard it I have a terrible time trying to not repeat it. I confess that I fail at both more times than not. I really do try to not engage, but...

[Nate Pruitt]

I do. I think it a good choice of topic. I see gossip as a greater threat to the church today than any of the other issues we tend to discuss here. However, I don't think we like to talk much about it. If many are like me they find the topic convicting and must face our own participation (and dare I say it, starting it.) Yes, I lower myself into gossiping from time to time. I have a hard time not listening to it. Once I've heard it I have a terrible time trying to not repeat it. I confess that I fail at both more times than not. I really do try to not engage, but...

It's something that is very hard for me as well. I think it's actually incredibly dangerous to the church. I've never seen a church split or large exodus of people from a congregation that wasn't heavily tainted with gossip. It undermines ministries, destroys the ability for true discipleship and accountability to happen, and leaves people wounded in the very place they should have been able to encounter healing. Pretty rough stuff, and as you pointed out it is incredibly hard to be the point where gossip stops.

[Cam Pence]

However, I don't think we like to talk much about it.

Oh we do....but only behind your back.

[Tim Bourland]

It is always easier to have our pet sins committed by "them" to demonize than to transparently admit our own...

[Glenn Messer]

I have it from a reliable source that our friend --- you know the one I'm talking about --- frequently goes to Chick Fil A just to hide the fact that he struggles with his sexual identity. Of course, I'm only telling you this so you'll know how to pray for him.

[Roy Richardson]

See what I did there?

Can we throw in Gossip's cousins of murmuring, backbiting and divisiveness? They tend to travel as a pack.

[Wes Smith]

Totally thinking that gossips have been marginalized. Time to get the camera out and offer to take their pics. They run in packs. Group pictures are in order!

Totally cynical. Couldn't help it. The devil made me do it.

Friend,

Wes

[Nelson Bradford]

One of our former pastors, who I greatly admired and has gone to be with Jesus, said before you say anything about another person it should clear three hurdles:

a) is it true? A Christian always tells the truth.
b) is it kind?
c) is it necessary?

I fear that many things said by people claiming to be Christian fail at least two of those criteria.

One person recently said to us about an acquaintance . . . "he like so many young men raised in a Nazarene church now has a live in girl-friend."

I considered that gossip - I did not need to know that.

He continued . . . "but he had no strong father influence in his life - his dad had an affair."

We also know that father - did not know he'd had an affair.

And that sure enough was gossip, IMHO, and something I wished I did not know.

-neb

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I agree with this thread:

1. Enough about homosexuals
2. Let's talk about gossips!

I especially agree with number 1.

[Jon Bemis]

It undermines ministries, destroys the ability for true discipleship and accountability to happen, and leaves people wounded in the very place they should have been able to encounter healing.

This is so true. One way I have found to respond to a gossip is to say, "Let's go talk to this person about this together." It's amazing how virtually all gossips don't like the thought of that. Of course, this is both blessing and curse. The blessing is people will stop coming to you with their gossip. The curse is they just find someone else and keep on gossiping.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Nah, I don't want to change the subject, because I'm pretty sure I'm not same gender oriented.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Oh we do....but only behind your back.

I know......I have amazing hearing

[Craig Laughlin]

Any of you addressed it from the pulpit? If so, how?

I have said flat out it was a sin and maybe the favorite sin of people who follow Christ. During a couple of periods I addressed it pretty regularly. I even named and then gutted some of the rumors and said if you have been hearing this you have been listening to a gossip and that is sin. (Boy was it quiet in the room) (I would be careful with this approach in a smaller church where everyone knows everyone.)

It helped in a variety of ways.

Best result - folks who became aware of it in their lives, even if it was just listening to it and made some changes. Large group of people in that category. I think we do a disservice to our people when we don't address this issue. Scripture clearly calls it sin.

Others - Left - felt they were right. (didn't matter about the facts)

Others - stayed and boarder on being bitter but are much more secretive about their gossip. Strangely, they continue to say the same things even when it is widely known to not be true. - How does one do that?

[Marissa Lynn Coblentz]

Any of you addressed it from the pulpit? if so, how.

I heard an interesting strategy for approaching this sort of thing just last week in my small group. The topic of speaking in tongues was raised, and one of the group shared a story about his Assembly of God days. The church services regularly included various members addressing the congregation in tongues, followed by someone offering an interpretation of what was said. One week, in the midst of a very tumultuous period in the church's life, a woman got up and addressed the conversation in tongues. Another woman got up to interpret, but was cut off by someone no one had ever seen before. The new interpreter began to identify a number of rumors, conversations happening behind closed doors, and divisive gossip. According to our small group member, she called out all of the significant issues that everyone was gossiping about, but no one was dealing with and forced the church to face them head on. The interpreter was never seen again at the church.

How's that for a strategy? Invite someone to speak in tongues and then invite an outsider to interpret who can call out the gossips without any fear of retribution.

(Just to add another controversial topic to this thread!)

[Craig Laughlin]

I heard an interesting strategy for approaching this sort of thing just last week in my small group. The topic of speaking in tongues was raised, and one of the group shared a story about his Assembly of God days. The church services regularly included various members addressing the congregation in tongues, followed by someone offering an interpretation of what was said. One week, in the midst of a very tumultuous period in the church's life, a woman got up and addressed the conversation in tongues. Another woman got up to interpret, but was cut off by someone no one had ever seen before. The new interpreter began to identify a number of rumors, conversations happening behind closed doors, and divisive gossip. According to our small group member, she called out all of the significant issues that everyone was gossiping about, but no one was dealing with and forced the church to face them head on. The interpreter was never seen again at the church.

How's that for a strategy? Invite someone to speak in tongues and then invite an outsider to interpret who can call out the gossips without any fear of retribution.

(Just to add another controversial topic to this thread!)

Sound very effective, but hard to program.

[Wes Smith]

Nah, I don't want to change the subject, because I'm pretty sure I'm not same gender oriented.

One out of two ain't bad!

Friend,

Wes

[Abram Book]

This topic hits home for me. I have a graduate degree in journalism and two Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporters trained me to do research and find information on all manner of people, places, events, etc. Thus, it's hard for me to disregard my training and remember the church is not an appropriate venue for "fishing expeditions." Especially if someone feels compelled to share information of the gossip variety with me. I don't want to be rude and cut them off or say I'm not interested, but at the same time, the best way not to repeat gossip is never to hear it in the first place. All I can really do is pray the Lord will help me with this.

[Dennis M. Scott]

One out of two ain't bad!

Friend,

Wes

Wonder if that will work at the judgement?

We better hope grace works.

[Jon Bemis]

Any of you addressed it from the pulpit? If so, how?

I have said flat out it was a sin and maybe the favorite sin of people who follow Christ. During a couple of periods I addressed it pretty regularly. I even named and then gutted some of the rumors and said if you have been hearing this you have been listening to a gossip and that is sin. (Boy was it quiet in the room) (I would be careful with this approach in a smaller church where everyone knows everyone.)

It helped in a variety of ways.

Best result - folks who became aware of it in their lives, even if it was just listening to it and made some changes. Large group of people in that category. I think we do a disservice to our people when we don't address this issue. Scripture clearly calls it sin.

Others - Left - felt they were right. (didn't matter about the facts)

Others - stayed and boarder on being bitter but are much more secretive about their gossip. Strangely, they continue to say the same things even when it is widely known to not be true. - How does one do that?

I have. I've found it is good to address this from time to time. In fact I'll be preaching on this in about 6 weeks. The message is titled "The Church Whisperer."

[Craig Laughlin]

This topic hits home for me. I have a graduate degree in journalism and two Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporters trained me to do research and find information on all manner of people, places, events, etc. Thus, it's hard for me to disregard my training and remember the church is not an appropriate venue for "fishing expeditions." Especially if someone feels compelled to share information of the gossip variety with me. I don't want to be rude and cut them off or say I'm not interested, but at the same time, the best way not to repeat gossip is never to hear it in the first place. All I can really do is pray the Lord will help me with this.

Thanks Abram, your line of work would be especially difficult with this issue. I would guess that over time you have or will develop and pretty rich perspective on the issue. (Assuming you continue to reflect on the tension) - That is a hard balancing act. I would be interested to hear more of your perspective.

[Marcus Kibbe]

See what I did there?

I'm not sure I'm following. Of course, homosexuality isn't the only sin. These type of arguments skirt the real issue. I don't know anyone who advocates and champions gossips, thieves, drunkards, etc. Yet many Christians advocate homosexuality and more and more churches officially endorse it. This is the real issue. The homosexual discussion has nothing to do with elevating homosexuality above other sins. A true Christian doesn't encourage people in deliberate sin when they ought to call them to repentance.

I think we do a disservice to our people when we don't address this issue. Scripture clearly calls it sin.

You would agree, right Craig?

[Nate Pruitt]

Can we throw in Gossip's cousins of murmuring, backbiting and divisiveness? They tend to travel as a pack.

If I bring out the Wesley sermon and rehash this subject (which the response indicates I probably should) then we definitely would as Wesley definitely addresses "whispering" (murmuring) quite effectively. Wesley basically pushes it to such an extent that if you aren't praising the person you're talking about then you don't need to talk about them when they aren't there. It's rather pointed and incredibly convicting.

[Abram Book]

Thanks Abram, your line of work would be especially difficult with this issue. I would guess that over time you have or will develop and pretty rich perspective on the issue. (Assuming you continue to reflect on the tension) - That is a hard balancing act. I would be interested to hear more of your perspective.

Thankfully, Craig, I'm not in full time journalism anymore. The hours, commitments and constantly being "on call" were not conducive to protecting a marriage and raising a family and I really started to develop a guilty conscience whenever I met someone new knowing that person might well end up being the subject of my next necessary gotcha piece. Using my God-given writing talent to stab otherwise reputable people and organizations in the back was bad enough, but to get paid for it was even worse.

That said, even though I'm not in the business, the training I received - to find information, to get and keep people talking, etc. - remains ingrained in me. The balancing act continues even as I'm no longer a professional "information disseminator." As I pursue pastoral ministry and eventually ordination, that is something that deeply troubles me about myself. As you well know, a pastor must be known for his or her ability to keep confidences and my educational training runs directly contrary to that requirement. Yoda famously told Luke Skywalker during his Jedi training, "you must unlearn what you have learned." That's where I find myself at the moment - needing to "unlearn what I have learned" but with no idea how to do it.

Not repeating the information is harder for me than not seeking it in the first place. I'm a natural question-asker, so many times my simple "how are you" or "what's going on" or "how would you handle this situation" questions inadvertently lead to someone sharing the latest (or past) juicy scoop with me. Then, thanks to my journalist training, I immediately run and report to everybody about what's just been told to me, even though I wasn't actively seeking any such information to begin with. Once again, I'm really not sure how to untrain myself in this regard. I have considered journaling the information, but really don't want to put it in writing in the off-chance my journal might be discovered or read by a third party. Perhaps counseling might work, but I really don't see paying exhorbitant counseling fees to address something that's not really a disorder or quality-of-life issue.

One thing I have done is given my family and friends free reign to call me out when it looks to them like I'm actively seeking gossip or reporting confidential information [this happened just yesterday, as a matter of fact]. It's humbling when this happens, but I equate it to being hit on the head with a baseball bat - if it happens enough times, I'll eventually get sick of the pain and stop the behavior.

It's an ongoing struggle and one that needs prayer.

[Craig Laughlin]

Thankfully, Craig, I'm not in full time journalism anymore. The hours, commitments and constantly being "on call" were not conducive to protecting a marriage and raising a family and I really started to develop a guilty conscience whenever I met someone new knowing that person might well end up being the subject of my next necessary gotcha piece. Using my God-given writing talent to stab otherwise reputable people and organizations in the back was bad enough, but to get paid for it was even worse.

That said, even though I'm not in the business, the training I received - to find information, to get and keep people talking, etc. - remains ingrained in me. The balancing act continues even as I'm no longer a professional "information disseminator." As I pursue pastoral ministry and eventually ordination, that is something that deeply troubles me about myself. As you well know, a pastor must be known for his or her ability to keep confidences and my educational training runs directly contrary to that requirement. Yoda famously told Luke Skywalker during his Jedi training, "you must unlearn what you have learned." That's where I find myself at the moment - needing to "unlearn what I have learned" but with no idea how to do it.

Not repeating the information is harder for me than not seeking it in the first place. I'm a natural question-asker, so many times my simple "how are you" or "what's going on" or "how would you handle this situation" questions inadvertently lead to someone sharing the latest (or past) juicy scoop with me. Then, thanks to my journalist training, I immediately run and report to everybody about what's just been told to me, even though I wasn't actively seeking any such information to begin with. Once again, I'm really not sure how to untrain myself in this regard. I have considered journaling the information, but really don't want to put it in writing in the off-chance my journal might be discovered or read by a third party. Perhaps counseling might work, but I really don't see paying exhorbitant counseling fees to address something that's not really a disorder or quality-of-life issue.

One thing I have done is given my family and friends free reign to call me out when it looks to them like I'm actively seeking gossip or reporting confidential information [this happened just yesterday, as a matter of fact]. It's humbling when this happens, but I equate it to being hit on the head with a baseball bat - if it happens enough times, I'll eventually get sick of the pain and stop the behavior.

It's an ongoing struggle and one that needs prayer.

Very transparent post, thank you.

Totally off topic of this thread but... that has never stopped me in the past. - I and I suspect many of us have natural gifts that both bless and curse our ministry. I tell people any gift is a double edged sword and I have lived long enough to have that idea as one of my core "rules" about the way the world works.

You have shared about the down side of this gift (disciplined and sharpened by training) I suspect you have already discovered (or soon will) the up side. The ability to ask probing questions and sniff out issues can be very life giving to yourself and others when disciplined to our profession.

It has taken me a long time to reduce the frequency and severity of the "cuts" I inflict on myself with my double edged sword. I think you are on the right track for several reasons.

- You recognize the weakness that goes with the strength. (Amazing how many people do not)
- You are actively taking steps to both counter and curb the issue. (I like the journal idea, just do it electronically with a very strong password)
- You are making yourself accountable.

Welcome to the journey that is pastoring. Not only do we wrestle with our parishioner's demons, we do it while being kicked by our own.

Grace and Peace Brother.

[James Diggs]

Might I suggest that if we see two people gossiping we ask them if we can take their picture

[John Kennedy]

Wonder if that will work at the judgement?

We better hope grace works.

Surely the Deity would be favorably impressed by the kind of batting average that would turn any MLB player green with envy.

[Kyle Borger]

It would seem that at times we should change the name of the prayer chain to the gossip chain. We only want to know things so we can properly pray, right? I have developed the habit of asking the person being prayed for if I can list their need or the very least I ask if they have given us permission. With the new privacy laws there may be some liability if something is known in the course of our religious duties and is shared without consent.

The hard part is sometimes as staff when we discuss various church members. Are we discussing this person for clarification and knowledge for appropriate responses or simply sharing occupational stories?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I think we're too hard on gossips. Some people are just born that way and we can't consider it a sin if it isn't voluntary, right? Also, I'm not convinced that the Bible prohibitions are other than culturally oriented statements. Maybe we should accept them and their gossiping nature, loving them just as they are.

[Craig Laughlin]

It would seem that at times we should change the name of the prayer chain to the gossip chain. We only want to know things so we can properly pray, right? I have developed the habit of asking the person being prayed for if I can list their need or the very least I ask if they have given us permission. With the new privacy laws there may be some liability if something is known in the course of our religious duties and is shared without consent.

The hard part is sometimes as staff when we discuss various church members. Are we discussing this person for clarification and knowledge for appropriate responses or simply sharing occupational stories?

We use a closed group of Facebook. It allows people to control and update their own information. It also allows me to say to those asking for more information, they have shared on our prayer page the information they are comfortable sharing. It has really worked out good for us, cut back significantly the "rumors" I think in part because it comes directly from the people involved.

[Doug Ward]

I think we're too hard on gossips. Some people are just born that way and we can't consider it a sin if it isn't voluntary, right? Also, I'm not convinced that the Bible prohibitions are other than culturally oriented statements. Maybe we should accept them and their gossiping nature, loving them just as they are.

Scott, maybe the worst part is that people who gossip often feel marginalized. Some are distanced from their families because of their "sin." Perhaps if we host a parade for them, it will help them feel re-integrated. I like your thinking.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I write about prayer chain options here: http://pastorscott.blogspot.com/2011...n-options.html

We're still using this same plan - the Phone Tree and email as our primary and Call 'em all as our backup. I recommend Call 'em all plus email as a superior approach over a "chain."

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Scott, maybe the worst part is that people who gossip often feel marginalized. Some are distanced from their families because of their "sin." Perhaps if we host a parade for them, it will help them feel re-integrated. I like your thinking.

Some kind of "gossip pride" event. Bet we'd have a lot of people come out of the closet.

(Okay I'm done with this non-approach)

[Nate Pruitt]

Prayer chains came up, and that was one of the areas I was thinking about- I find anonymoussip most intriguing. (That would be anonymous-gossip.) You know the kind- the incredibly over detailed prayer request on behalf of an unnamed other. I'd rather have people request an unspoken with some urgency than that sort of request. Of course we're generally more tight-lipped about our own requests, too.

Which may bring us to a quick sidebar: Pastors and church leaders, especially, how do you go about personal/family prayer requests for yourself and your family when the culture of the church is often saturated with gossip? I know some pastors that will never request prayer on their behalf. That doesn't seem like a healthy practice nor would it be healthy for the church. Still, how do you go about such things?

[Nate Pruitt]

Some kind of "gossip pride" event. Bet we'd have a lot of people come out of the closet.

(Okay I'm done with this non-approach)

No one will show up at a gossip pride event, Scott. Instead they would all converse on the phone about those they were sure were there.

[Craig Laughlin]

I write about prayer chain options here: http://pastorscott.blogspot.com/2011...n-options.html

We're still using this same plan - the Phone Tree and email as our primary and Call 'em all as our backup. I recommend Call 'em all plus email as a superior approach over a "chain."

Our phone tree never worked very well. (Phone tree blamed it on our phone provider and the provider blamed it on Phone Tree) We switched to a whole digital over the internet thing and now it doesn't work at all. Would love to have it again as our older crowd really like a phone call. Anyone know of a phone tree system that works with an internet based calling system?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Our phone tree never worked very well. (Phone tree blamed it on our phone provider and the provider blamed it on Phone Tree) We switched to a whole digital over the internet thing and now it doesn't work at all. Would love to have it again as our older crowd really like a phone call. Anyone know of a phone tree system that works with an internet based calling system?

Check out Call 'em All that I mentioned. It's internet based - works good.

About half of our prayer line receives requests via email. The rest via telephone.

[Hans Deventer]

I think we're too hard on gossips. Some people are just born that way and we can't consider it a sin if it isn't voluntary, right? Also, I'm not convinced that the Bible prohibitions are other than culturally oriented statements. Maybe we should accept them and their gossiping nature, loving them just as they are.

Great post but you forgot to quote an authoritive source. He're some Lady Gaga:


My mama told me when I was young
We are all born superstars
She rolled my hair and put my lipstick on
In the glass of her boudoir

There's nothin' wrong with lovin' who you are
She said, 'cause He made you perfect, babe
So hold your head up, girl and you you'll go far
Listen to me when I say

I'm beautiful in my way
'Cause God makes no mistakes
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Don't hide yourself in regret
Just love yourself and you're set
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way, born this way