Forget leaving- why stay in the Church?

[Nate Pruitt]

There are a few good conversations that are going on right now and they are driving me to this thought:

Why stay?

Really- why do we stay? Do you wake up on Sunday morning and realize, begrudgingly, that it's church time and you have to go again, even though you don't really want to? (But you have to because they hired you as the pastor and it's your job, hahaha.) Do you sip some coffee and deliberate whether you should go or not, but then quote Hebrews 10:25 to yourself, just like you do to anyone who says they may leave the church, and get dressed?

I'm concerned that our love of Christ (why we stay with Christ) is not necessarily indicative of our staying in a church or the Church. There seem to be many reasons people stay, probably as many reasons as there are people, and even that should probably concern us on some level. It is indicative of the lack of unity that tends to be common in the Church. Not homogeneous, industrial revolution style assembly line exactness- I mean unity- that thing that happens when the Spirit is the most important identifier in the Church.

If we struggle to identify a reason for our staying that is also the driving hope and heart of many around us then what is there for the new believer, the young people, or the men in the church? (To touch on a few other posts and whatnot.) What exactly are they supposedly being welcomed to join at a church? A choose-your-own-adventure smorgasbord of potential reasons so we hope one sticks? A promise of wealth and wisdom if they get locked in and have real faith? A work to be done and a quick volunteering of their skills so they feel obligated before they can decide if they want to stay or not?

Why stay?

I'm starting to wonder how many churches and church goers have much of any theological basis for what they do and why they do it when it comes to church attendance. And if we're relying on other reasons- God help us.

[Nate Pruitt]

In response to my own question it's hard. I'm called. I'm called to minister, and I do. I have obligations to others, ongoing debts of love, and I desire for my children to be raised in the Church. Still, the reasons I really have for staying often have to remain unspoken because I feel drawn to a reality that churches I've participated in haven't yet developed. Sometimes staying is hard, but it's comfortable. Change is harder. I'm called- so I suppose I'll stay.

There- a moment of outright honesty.

[John Reilly]

In many ways, a Christian is always part of the church, as Paul describes.

1 Corinthians 11:1-3, “Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

and

1 Corinthians 11:23-26, “For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”

And

1 Corinthians 12:12-27
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free —and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

[Todd Erickson]

Guilt, duty, loyalty, the fear that I might miss something. Exhaustion with having the same verses pelted at me again and again. Frustration at all of the questions I can't really ask, or concepts I can't deal with. They might, possibly, rarely get addressed at church. But probably not.

I'm not even clear, a lot of the time, what being at church actually has to do with being "on the way". But I hope.

[Ian Gentles]

In the thirty years I spent in ministry I often asked myself this same question. To be honest, often I have found church boreing, a struggle to attend. In many cases duty controlled my efforts. Duty in itself is a good thing, but it never seems enough.
I have often marvelled that the faithfull are actualy soo faithfull. Many in our congregations deserve a medal.
Yes its meant to be a fellowship of beleivers on their way to glory. But Sunday by Sunday, its often the faithfull suffering again.
I can understand why many say, "I dont need the church". Why many young people leave, maybe not Christ, but the church.
In my life there has been times when Sunday was my least favourite day, too busy by far.
I have, as yet, no clear answer to your question, but I am thinking. Maybe, on Sundays, we are too busy with what is really not relevent? Maybe we are trying to be over happy clappy, when people are facing pain, uncertainty, etc?
If I was a visitor from another planet, seeking what was important to humanes, what would I think if I visited a church service?
I have no clear answers, but will be intersted in what others say?
You have asked a very good question.

[Peggy Gray]

Maybe some stay because it's become so much a part of who they are that they can't imagine what else to do. Especially if they feel unable to contribute significantly to change. Stay and pray. Depressing.

[Greg Farra]

I stay because Jesus loves the church, and despite her (and my own) shortcomings, the church and I need to love each other as well.

[Gene Tatsch]

I stay because Jesus loves the church, and despite her (and my own) shortcomings, the church and I need to love each other as well.

Which "church" are you referring to? The group that meets on schedule or the church of Jesus? They're quite different, yet may be intertwined.

[Greg Farra]

Which "church" are you referring to? The group that meets on schedule or the church of Jesus? They're quite different, yet may be intertwined.

Yes.

[Susan Unger]

Where I used to live, I could visit friends' church [and once in awhile this would happen in my church] and know that I would meet powerfully with the Holy Spirit that day. Doing so brought healing and and awareness of a "wholly other" reaching out to me.

[Paul DeBaufer]

To be hated and despised by those who are supposed to be loving. To see the fake smiles and masks of friendliness that really don't hide the contempt. To give people a reason to run to the pastor, "Do you know who that is?" "Do you know what he has done?" "Have you googled him? Do you really think it's safe to let him be here?"

Yeah, I really have no idea why I keep submitting myself to it.

[Nate Pruitt]

These responses are all reminders as to why I asked the question. Thank you!

I think there are a few things that the Church should offer: the truest definition of love, a koinonia understanding of sharing and community togetherness (which is becoming all the more rare in American society), a real sense of forgiveness, and likewise a freedom from being condemned by others- GASP!!!

A community that embraces and grows in such understandings continues to be my hope for the Church, and being one drawn to reformation (lower case R) keeps me present for now. Having seen and experienced some of these things has made me love the Church. Some days it's hard, though.

[Doug Ward]

I guess I am in the minority. I go because I am the pastor, and the DS will knock on my door if I don't show up. But that is not why I go. I go because I love the people, and I miss it when I do not go. I go because there might be someone there whose week will be lessened if I do not go. There are people there who might be lifted by the presence of others - even me. I go because I am not called to go, attend or give, but because of Romans 8. Somehow the whole cosmos is being renewed, and I am not a bystander in this process but a part of that process. I cannot simply vote "present" on this grand renewal, my full participation is needed. Finally, to say the whole world needs to be redeemed is meaningless without realizing this renewal must start with this particular jar of clay. And my renewal depends on the presence of other people as well.

If I am not there to love and affirm, then who? If that time of affirmation is not now and with me, then when?

[Nate Pruitt]

I guess I am in the minority. I go because I am the pastor, and the DS will knock on my door if I don't show up. But that is not why I go. I go because I love the people, and I miss it when I do not go. I go because there might be someone there whose week will be lessened if I do not go. There are people there who might be lifted by the presence of others - even me. I go because I am not called to go, attend or give, but because of Romans 8. Somehow the whole cosmos is being renewed, and I am not a bystander in this process but a part of that process. I cannot simply vote "present" on this grand renewal, my full participation is needed. Finally, to say the whole world needs to be redeemed is meaningless without realizing this renewal must start with this particular jar of clay. And my renewal depends on the presence of other people as well.

If I am not there to love and affirm, then who? If that time of affirmation is not now and with me, then when?

These are fantastic reasons, Doug. I truly appreciate your heart. I can say that Romans 12 as a model inspires my hope in participation in the local congregation, so we're both drawing inspiration in part from the same letter. I suppose my question would be- then what would become the communal (united in Spirit) reasoning for others to stay? Since not everyone can share in being the pastor of your church what will be the reasoning for them to stay?

[Billy Cox]

Which "church" are you referring to? The group that meets on schedule or the church of Jesus? They're quite different, yet may be intertwined.

This is why I have banished the word from my vocabulary. The group of people with whom I worship and fellowship is a 'congregation'. That's a more faithful English translation of the word ekklesia too. The universal body of Christ? That's the 'Kingdom'.

See?? No more confusion over whether it is the little 'c' or big 'C'. No more temptation to invoke the Bride of Christ card to raise money for parking lot maintenance.

[Doug Ward]

These are fantastic reasons, Doug. I truly appreciate your heart. I can say that Romans 12 as a model inspires my hope in participation in the local congregation, so we're both drawing inspiration in part from the same letter. I suppose my question would be- then what would become the communal (united in Spirit) reasoning for others to stay? Since not everyone can share in being the pastor of your church what will be the reasoning for them to stay?

The reasons I gave were the same reasons I would have given when I was not the pastor. In fact, they would have only been strengthened. I have found that when regular people come, it is far more powerful then when the pastor does something. He is expected to - it is part of his job. Yet when the regular person does it, it is powerful and renewing.

[Hans Deventer]

I go because of the hope of meeting God somewhere in the service. It might be the sermon, it might be a prayer, it might be a song. And because I feel at home in my church.

[Ian Gentles]

To be hated and despised by those who are supposed to be loving. To see the fake smiles and masks of friendliness that really don't hide the contempt. To give people a reason to run to the pastor, "Do you know who that is?" "Do you know what he has done?" "Have you googled him? Do you really think it's safe to let him be here?"

Yeah, I really have no idea why I keep submitting myself to it.

Yes those things can happen to folks. I also dont like if folks have money they seem to be more welcome.

[Ian Gentles]

Having said all, maybe I stay because things might get better?
What can we do about churches where many of the comments above are true?
I must admit that I have learnt to keep a lot of things private, not willing to share, in church. This may indicate that I dont trust fellow christians? Big problem can be, we simply cant trust some folks in our churches. The church has become soooo like the world.
Why are we soooo like the world? Why havent we learnt from Christ Jesus? No wonder in some cases the world wont touch us with a barge poll.

[Nate Pruitt]

Having said all, maybe I stay because things might get better?
What can we do about churches where many of the comments above are true?
I must admit that I have learnt to keep a lot of things private, not willing to share, in church. This may indicate that I dont trust fellow christians? Big problem can be, we simply cant trust some folks in our churches. The church has become soooo like the world.
Why are we soooo like the world? Why havent we learnt from Christ Jesus? No wonder in some cases the world wont touch us with a barge poll.

It might get better. Yes. So true, Ian. I think this is our great hope, and where our faith resides, that the work of the church and the work by God in the church is not done.

I do stay, in part, because of hopeful faith that finds assurance in things unseen. This is something that I hope all members of churches cling to, and seek to enable, in their faith communities.

[Ian Gentles]

It might get better. Yes. So true, Ian. I think this is our great hope, and where our faith resides, that the work of the church and the work by God in the church is not done.

I do stay, in part, because of hopeful faith that finds assurance in things unseen. This is something that I hope all members of churches cling to, and seek to enable, in their faith communities.

I often feel that I stay because there is nowhere else to go. I have been very tempted, in the past, to give up the church, but I havent. I dont blame Christ that His church often fails, is often worldly, I guess He is more upset than we are that it often, not always, is soo? Also I do feel I need the church, to keep on growing, etc. Each Sunday I pray that the Holy Spirit may come amongst us.
That even the NT church had its problems is no comfort, almost feel as if we are saying we accept problems, defeat?
I think our values are way out, we often think as the world does, praise success, want victorious stories, etc.
Young folks, for all their immaturity, are often idealists, seeing the wrong and thus moving on. But what they dont work out is, where are they going too?
So I'm stuck with the church, we all are, but how to make it what it should be? this is the question.

[Todd Erickson]

Shea and I were talking about this at length yesterday.

He suspects (and I can't disagree) that we do not educate in a way where our children and new Christians not only understand that we have a comprehensive language for things, but what that language means, and what it looks like. There is, at length, an assumption of osmosis that often results in everybody having their own particular interpretation of things.

It's hard to have all things in unity when we're all speaking different languages. Or not speaking at all.

[Ian Gentles]

Shea and I were talking about this at length yesterday.

He suspects (and I can't disagree) that we do not educate in a way where our children and new Christians not only understand that we have a comprehensive language for things, but what that language means, and what it looks like. There is, at length, an assumption of osmosis that often results in everybody having their own particular interpretation of things.

It's hard to have all things in unity when we're all speaking different languages. Or not speaking at all.

I find what you say very interesting. What I say, and you say, saying a similer thing, may mean different things to us both. Here we share our thinking in words, seeking to express our souls. Maybe the person in the congregation understands differently from what is being taught? Maybe we havent understood the Bible ourselfs, in many places?

[Marsha Lynn]

From a 2005 blog post, why I go to church:

1. “Lone ranger” Christians are likely to develop a view of God even more skewed than one finds in the church. There is balance to be found in a group of believers. Even when I don’t agree with what I hear at church, the introduction of a different perspective helps me hone my own beliefs and check them against the Holy Scriptures. I need the shaping that the church provides. I need to make myself accountable to a community of believers.

2. The church is my family. These are people who care about me. If I’m in the hospital they’ll come and visit me. When I’m grieving they extend sympathy. When I receive blessings they rejoice with me. Sure, some of them are scallywags. Isn’t that the case in every family? They’re still family.

3. Fellowship. When someone steps through the doors of the church, they are indicating at least some minimal level of interest in spiritual things. The church brings me into intentional contact with such people. I find encouragement along the way as I interact with others who have chosen to live as Christians.

4. Ministry. The church is a place to share my spiritual journey with others and hopefully encourage them in their own walk. Just as my church family ministers to me in my times of joy and grief, I too can minister to others. Perhaps I can encourage someone who is searching for God and having difficulty finding Him. I can weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who are rejoicing.

5. To worship God. I left this for last because I find corporate worship challenging. My most focused worship times occur in solitude. Generally, the only way I can carry worship into the church is to have it begin at home. Still, occasionally I am surprised by a glimpse of heaven even within the church.

The blog post also includes four reasons why I stay in the sometimes-irritating church I'm in rather than looking for something better. (Not included in those reasons is the lack of nearby choices in the progressive church category.)

Marsha

[Paul DeBaufer]

In my pain and cynicism I can point to the hate pretending to be love, the inauthenicity, the hypocrisy, but IF I leave then I am part of the problem. When I stay and suffer, though at times I want to just give up and walk away, I grow in love, authenticity, away from hypocrisy. Even though I face some of the same in my current church that drove me, literally, from the previous (including the denomination, leaving was NOT my choice) I have found a small group that is willing to carve out that space of radical acceptance, radical inclusion. I am hoping as we go through the process we can seed it in the congregation at large.

I stay because I haven't lost hope. Maybe I have for me personally, but I haven't lost hope for the church catholic, nor for my local congregation.

[Nate Pruitt]

I often feel that I stay because there is nowhere else to go. I have been very tempted, in the past, to give up the church, but I havent. I dont blame Christ that His church often fails, is often worldly, I guess He is more upset than we are that it often, not always, is soo? Also I do feel I need the church, to keep on growing, etc. Each Sunday I pray that the Holy Spirit may come amongst us.
That even the NT church had its problems is no comfort, almost feel as if we are saying we accept problems, defeat?
I think our values are way out, we often think as the world does, praise success, want victorious stories, etc.
Young folks, for all their immaturity, are often idealists, seeing the wrong and thus moving on. But what they dont work out is, where are they going too?
So I'm stuck with the church, we all are, but how to make it what it should be? this is the question.

It does make one wonder what tables Christ would overturn in churches today and who He would drive out with whips.

[Debi Peck]

I go because of the hope of meeting God somewhere in the service. It might be the sermon, it might be a prayer, it might be a song. And because I feel at home in my church.

Hans, I really resonated with this! In another post I mentioned a book I've been reading The Worship Architect by Constance Cherry. "Meeting God somewhere in the service" is a recurring theme throughout the book. It has developed a deep hunger in me to really be anticipating and looking for those times, not just during corporate worship, but in every area of my life.

[John O Comstock]

I’ve never had one thought ever of not wanting to go to Church from the day I was saved 40 years ago. The Lord called me to preach and that journey led me to Pastor 6 congregations in 4 states. I’ve been wore out, exhausted, hard pressed, lacked answers, discouraged, felt like a failure, had all kinds of problems, have been hated, falsely accused but never one time did I have a thought of not going to Church. We also witnessed tremendous victories, multitudes of salvations and changed lives, and never was without the love of many authentic awesome Christians. Now in retirement the greatest enjoyment of my life is going to Church, Sunday and Wednesday. I feel like I’m the least of the least but as I pondered this question I think I never went to Church merely for me but I went most of all for others and there good and encouragement. I went to give the Love of God even if it was just a smile or a simple word, or shared presence. I’m sure I went because I felt that is what Jesus wanted me to do and I got my joy from obeying him not from what was taking place. I most always because service with these words. “We have gathered first and foremost above all things to honor God that is our greatest purpose for being here therefore God is pleased you are here.”

[Mike Schutz]

I stay because they are my people. I stay because when we gather together it helps me be a better representative of the kingdom when we go our separate ways. I stay because I promised I would. I stay because, while I understand the frustration, disappointment, and pain some have experienced because of life in the church, I truly believe life is better for me in the church than outside of it. I stay because the yet/ not yet nature of the church as kingdom community reminds me that such a description describes me too.

A long time ago, as we were leaving yet another frustrating and painful family gathering, my wife said, "maybe it would just be best if we didn't come back for awhile." my reply was, "that's not an option. It hurts every time I come to visit, but this is home, and I have to come back. These people are our family."

[Sarah Smith]

I stay for two reasons: 1. God uses the church not to pat me on the back but to grow me up. Sometimes I've felt condemned, but guess what? Sometimes that was exactly how I should feel in order to bring me to repentance and move me along the way.

2. God uses my time at church to help move others along the way. It might be with a hug, or sharing a moment, or teaching a class, or whatever, but God uses me at times to help others move along the way.

Of course, for either of those to happen I have to remember it is HIS church, not my church.

[Billy Cox]

I stay because they are my people. I stay because when we gather together it helps me be a better representative of the kingdom when we go our separate ways. I stay because I promised I would. I stay because, while I understand the frustration, disappointment, and pain some have experienced because of life in the church, I truly believe life is better for me in the church than outside of it. I stay because the yet/ not yet nature of the church as kingdom community reminds me that such a description describes me too.

A long time ago, as we were leaving yet another frustrating and painful family gathering, my wife said, "maybe it would just be best if we didn't come back for awhile." my reply was, "that's not an option. It hurts every time I come to visit, but this is home, and I have to come back. These people are our family."

I think that professional clergy have far less complicated reasons for staying in the church.

[Nate Pruitt]

I think that professional clergy have far less complicated reasons for staying in the church.

That is actually part of why I started this, Billy, so thank you for bringing it back. It would seem necessary for pastors to be able to teach the value and necessity of the church (perhaps as community- which indicates it better actually be one) rather than hoping others stay for the reasons that suffice for a called minister.

[Greg Farra]

Most people (clergy and lay people) that serve on Sunday mornings don't have the luxury of deciding whether they're going to attend worship.

[Billy Cox]

That is actually part of why I started this, Billy, so thank you for bringing it back. It would seem necessary for pastors to be able to teach the value and necessity of the church (perhaps as community- which indicates it better actually be one) rather than hoping others stay for the reasons that suffice for a called minister.

I sometimes imagine that the clergy's life spheres are so thoroughly oriented to the local congregation, that they have difficulty convincing anyone else why they should likewise re-orient their lives around the congregation.

[Nate Pruitt]

I sometimes imagine that the clergy's life spheres are so thoroughly oriented to the local congregation, that they have difficulty convincing anyone else why they should likewise re-orient their lives around the congregation.

I agree. I intentionally spend more of my time talking about the ministry I am involved in with those outside of the church in hopes that the congregation will understand that I don't see myself as solely theirs, nor that their sole concern should be one of maintaining "the group" rather than continuing to reach out to others. While much of my ministry is done for my local congregation it seems important to make sure they understand that our collective ministry doesn't begin and end "within the fold."

Effectively this is my reason for staying in the Church, we are about Kingdom work, and the gathering is a blessing in acknowledging and sharing in such purpose.

[Todd Erickson]

Imagine that you love, say, painting. You love all of it's forms...oil, water, etc. maybe throw in some charcoal for color.

There is a group that gets together to talk about painting, but they mostly will only talk about painting in the most restrictive and pessimistic forms possible.

And it's not even as simple as one being pro oil. it's pro-oil, impressionist only, from a specific period.

So, in fact, if you attend one of these groups...it eventually leads you to despise painting unless you go off and do it by yourself. In fact, you often find that most of the inhabitants of these groups only like to argue about proper painting...the few serious enthusiasts go off on their own and paint in a studio, and then come back to discuss how everybody else is doing it wrong based on their time alone in their studio.

So, you can either stay, because it's the only place that you can be with other painters...or you can leave, because you can't stand the stress and how it's degrading your love of painting.

But you can't have the love of painting with other people who just love painting. So choose.

[Sarah Smith]

And I stay for days like yesterday, when we seemed to move from being a tiny defeated band of struggling, failing disciples to a God blessed, God touched joyful band facing lions and rejoicing anyway.