The more things change ...

[Marsha Lynn]

The more things change the more they stay the same.

I picked up an old novel off the return shelves at the library. I just now looked at a review of it that described it as having too little story and too much lecture. Sort of like some more recent books I have read.

Sure enough, it starts off with some startling "facts" coming from the lips of one of the characters:

"Our fathers worshiped God. Christianity grew from that worship as a tree grows from its roots, until in our generation it is bearing its legitimate fruit -- good works. Can anyone question that the marvelous growth of interest in charities and social-welfare work of every kind in this generation is the direct result of the Christianity of our fathers? But while we today are harvesting these fruits of Christianity, like the miserable farmers of life that we are, we are neglecting the tree which produces them. With no thought of the future we are permitting the roots of our religion to die for want of intelligent cultivation."

Later, the father in the story encourages his daughter to get back into church involvement. She responds:

"Oh, Daddy dear, don't make me laugh! You are so old-fashioned, and I love you for it. But for Jack and me and our crowd the Church is simply impossible. It just doesn't fit into our lives anywhere... What right has the Church to expect my generation to hang on to all the denominational bunk that you and mother, when you were young, took from your preachers as the one and only simon pure, eighteen-carat, A-1 religion? ... As a matter of fact, Daddy dear, you don't believe half that's in our church creed yourself. And you know darned well that you don't really get any kick out of the antediluvian drivel that Parson Coleman calls a sermon. Why, if that reverend fraud should happen to have a real honest-to-goodness thought he wouldn't dare mention it for fear some of his denominational bosses might hear about it and fire him."

Does anyone care to try to put a date on this? It's obviously not recent, but it is rather amusing in that the laments sound strikingly familiar.

Marsha

[Steve Mershon]

Any clues?

"Parson" Coleman suggests 18th century to me, but I'm not certain just why.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Jackie says 1920's. I say yesterday.

[Peggy Gray]

Sounds 40's to me

[Marsha Lynn]

Jackie says 1920's. I say yesterday.

Jackie gets the prize. The book I'm reading is God and the Groceryman written in 1927 by Harold Bell Wright, whom Wikipedia describes as "a best-selling American writer of fiction, essays, and non-fiction during the first half of the 20th century."

I always get a kick out of reading stuff written in our "good old days" talking about how the world has gone to pot since the "good old days" of that era. Every generation seems convinced that Christianity was far more prevalent/genuine/evident/accepted/whatever in America a generation or two ago.

[Rich Schmidt]

Jackie gets the prize. The book I'm reading is God and the Groceryman written in 1927 by Harold Bell Wright, whom Wikipedia describes as "a best-selling American writer of fiction, essays, and non-fiction during the first half of the 20th century."

I always get a kick out of reading stuff written in our "good old days" talking about how the world has gone to pot since the "good old days" of that era. Every generation seems convinced that Christianity was far more prevalent/genuine/evident/accepted/whatever in America a generation or two ago.

Have you seen the movie, "Midnight in Paris"? That's the message of that movie, exactly.

[Dale Cozby]

the world has gone to pot since the "good old days" of that era. Every generation seems convinced that Christianity was far more prevalent/genuine/evident/accepted/whatever in America a generation or two ago.

If this in fact is the case with Christianity, then we are very very very very very far removed from the authentic now aren't we? May God have mercy on us in our ignorance and judge us by what we know and repent of not what we don't know.

Since I was NOT alive 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 1900 years ago , the only church, the only truth, the only way, the only life I know is what I see and have experinced. Context.....we have context.

Found another interesting quote from the book to share:

Concerning the modern minister he is: "ten per cent social visitor, tea drinker and diner-out; five per cent handyman and speaker for all kinds of boosting clubs; five per cent political henchman; twenty per cent denominational advocate; five per cent protector and comforter of that portion of his membership who, because their deeds will not bear the light, must live under the cloak of the Church; and fifty per cent public entertainer. The remaining five per cent of him is the teacher of the truths of Jesus, which, alone constitutes one hundred per cent of Christianity."

[Billy Cox]

If this in fact is the case with Christianity, then we are very very very very very far removed from the authentic now aren't we? May God have mercy on us in our ignorance and judge us by what we know and repent of not what we don't know.

Since I was NOT alive 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 1900 years ago , the only church, the only truth, the only way, the only life I know is what I see and have experinced. Context.....we have context.

The point seems to be that writers in the 'golden age' of American Christianity were just as likely to fear the end of the Church as we know it as would someone writing today.

Maybe all of the worry and hand-wringing is pointless - like the disciples worrying that they were going to drown while Jesus was napping in the boat.

[Rich Schmidt]

Have you seen the movie, "Midnight in Paris"? That's the message of that movie, exactly.

I should clarify: the movie has nothing to do with Christianity. It's all about people who think that an earlier time was better than the present... including the people who lived in that earlier time. They, too, looked back to earlier times as a "golden era" compared to the present.

[Nate Pruitt]

I should clarify: the movie has nothing to do with Christianity. It's all about people who think that an earlier time was better than the present... including the people who lived in that earlier time. They, too, looked back to earlier times as a "golden era" compared to the present.

I was going to mention the movie and then refrained for this very reason, Rich. It does get interesting as those from previous eras all talk about the greats of the previous eras, though.

[James Diggs]

I should clarify: the movie has nothing to do with Christianity. It's all about people who think that an earlier time was better than the present... including the people who lived in that earlier time. They, too, looked back to earlier times as a "golden era" compared to the present.

Yea, I enjoyed that movie very much.

That reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend who Pastors the church now I grew up in and attended 20 to 30 years ago. Some of the same crowd was still attending and he asked me what the church was like back then because they kept talking about those times as the "good old days". I laughed hard because none of those people then considered it the "good old days" at the time 20 to 30 years ago and would often complain to the Pastor back then then about how things didn't measure up to the way things were 40 to 50 years ago. I just couldn't believe after hearing all their complaining during those years that somehow they are now looking back on those same days as the "good old days".

[Paul DeBaufer]

If this in fact is the case with Christianity, then we are very very very very very far removed from the authentic now aren't we? May God have mercy on us in our ignorance and judge us by what we know and repent of not what we don't know.

Since I was NOT alive 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 1900 years ago , the only church, the only truth, the only way, the only life I know is what I see and have experinced. Context.....we have context.

Found another interesting quote from the book to share:

Concerning the modern minister he is: "ten per cent social visitor, tea drinker and diner-out; five per cent handyman and speaker for all kinds of boosting clubs; five per cent political henchman; twenty per cent denominational advocate; five per cent protector and comforter of that portion of his membership who, because their deeds will not bear the light, must live under the cloak of the Church; and fifty per cent public entertainer. The remaining five per cent of him is the teacher of the truths of Jesus, which, alone constitutes one hundred per cent of Christianity."

I love the line in bold

[John Kennedy]

Used to teach with a guy whose favorite expression was, "Nothing's like it used to be - never was!"

[Sarah Smith]

My grandmother first encountered preachers who would tell her the stories in the Bible were not true, but "contained truth" pre 1920.

She would get up and walk out.

No surprise that it still happens today.

Nor should it be a surprise we continue to devolve since we left Eden.

[Dale Cozby]

The point seems to be that writers in the 'golden age' of American Christianity were just as likely to fear the end of the Church as we know it as would someone writing today.

Maybe all of the worry and hand-wringing is pointless - like the disciples worrying that they were going to drown while Jesus was napping in the boat.

WHAT ! You mean we have all been bailing this dingy for nothing?

Seriously I like the tree analogy the best. When the tree is sick and fruitless God will prune it back. It happened before, is happening and will happen yet more when we are all gone.

[Billy Cox]

My grandmother first encountered preachers who would tell her the stories in the Bible were not true, but "contained truth" pre 1920.

She would get up and walk out.

No surprise that it still happens today.

Nor should it be a surprise we continue to devolve since we left Eden.

A smart preacher understands that the 'truth' of a story in some people's minds requires that the people in the story actually existed and that the events in the story actually happened. If it doesn't affect the message of Job's or Noah's story whether they actually existed or not, then why bring it up and cause the little children to stumble.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

This thread reminds me of how preachers from my youth would always begin a statement about making restitution with "You don't hear preaching about this anymore..." and then talk about restitution.

As a preacher I developed the habit of saying, "You hear a lot about the importance of making restitution and for good reason...."

However, don't know if other preachers still introduce the subject of restitution with "you don't hear about restitution anymore" because, aside from me, I haven't heard any preaching on the topic in a long time.

[Billy Cox]

This thread reminds me of how preachers from my youth would always begin a statement about making restitution with "You don't hear preaching about this anymore..." and then talk about restitution.

As a preacher I developed the habit of saying, "You hear a lot about the importance of making restitution and for good reason...."

However, don't know if other preachers still introduce the subject of restitution with "you don't hear about restitution anymore" because, aside from me, I haven't heard any preaching on the topic in a long time.

I have sometimes wondered how preachers know what all the other preachers are not preaching about.

[Nate Pruitt]

I have sometimes wondered how preachers know what all the other preachers are not preaching about.

Told from the sheep we try to steal. Duh.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I have sometimes wondered how preachers know what all the other preachers are not preaching about.

Maybe those old time preachers subscribed to one another's podcasts?

[Jim Franklin]

Observation from a Golden Ager: what's different about services and sermon topics, choruses instead of gospel hymns now are prevalent, amplification to the point of driving me out of the service, family altar time instead of altar calls for savation seekers, revival campaigns with pre campaign prayer meetings, spirit inspired testimonies, Sunday night services and Wednesday night prayer meetings, shouting praises, guitars instead of organs, sermons of Hellfire and facing damnation if one does not repent, glad to hear at least Scott is preaching about restitution, too long since I weht to a SS class party where did they go. Among the fellowship less hospitality for home cooked meals and more restaurant dining. Just observations.