Titus 1:16: They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. (NKJ)
Titus 1:16: They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. (NKJ)
Maybe those, int the words of Isaiah, "these people draw near with their mouths and honour me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their worship of me is a human commandment learned by rote". Maybe they were claiming to love God, yet were in action hating their neighbour, yet calling it love?
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If you start in verse 5 he talks about appointing elders. Then starting in verse 7 he gives the qualifications for elders and then starts in 10 to give the reasons why elders must meet such qualifications.
I think 1:16 would be a combined description of those "rebellious men"(10), Cretans (12), and the "defiled and unbelieving" (15). That there are those who profess of Christ, belong to the church, act within the church community, yet their actions show they are not of the Church.
To me the emphasis on "sound doctrine" may be pointed towards not just good theology but good practical theology.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ALL DIMENSIONS ARE BASIC.
Try all things by the written word, and let all bow down before it. You are in danger of [fanaticism] every hour, if you depart ever so little from Scripture; yea, or from the plain, literal meaning of an text, taken in connection with the context." - John WesleyPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 LaughingJim Chabot - "thanks" for this post
Would you say this scripture applies to the church today or have we evolved away from it?
Yes, I would very much agree that it applies to the church today.Originally Posted by Mike Smiley
Without lighting a flame war, I would say that individuals of the like of one Bishop Shelby Spong would fit this bill. But not just men like him, but laymen as well.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ALL DIMENSIONS ARE BASIC.
Try all things by the written word, and let all bow down before it. You are in danger of [fanaticism] every hour, if you depart ever so little from Scripture; yea, or from the plain, literal meaning of an text, taken in connection with the context." - John WesleyPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
I think there are still people who are:
- rebellious
- mere talkers
- deceivers
- liars
- evil brutes
- lazy gluttons
- who claim to know God
- with corrupted minds and consciences
- who's actions deny God
- who are detestable
- who are disobedient
- who are unfit for doing anything good
I don't think it has anything to do with "evolving" but is a spiritual reality and in need of the redemption Christ provided.
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Just to add that after Paul gives the qualifications of those who would be suitable to be elders, he jumps back and gives warning. I think that in the verses preceding 16, Paul gives a pretty good description of just who he is talking about. He seems to be warning of the Judaizers, those who appear very religious, yet are not near to God in their practice. Jesus gives similar warning in Matthew where he speaks of those in "moses seat."
Are these folks still with us today? I suppose that they are. I don't think that he is talking about apostates though, I'm thinking more toward liturgical types who rely heavily upon church history and tradition might fit the bill. We do know that frequently the traditions of men, make void the word of God.
-Jim
To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.
Garrison Keillor
I'd take the position that Paul is warning church leaders not just to defend the faith against non-Christians, but that he's specifically talking about the "Spongs" of his day. Reading it through again it seems that these "non-believers" have community and influence on the local church. Now while they may just have been outspoken non-Christians (note that I differentiate non-believers and non-Christians here), I believe they might have been people in the church. I find it quite clear then that verse 16 is talking about those within the church who either have a bad theology or don't have a practical theology (both resulting in not living the faith).
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ALL DIMENSIONS ARE BASIC.
Try all things by the written word, and let all bow down before it. You are in danger of [fanaticism] every hour, if you depart ever so little from Scripture; yea, or from the plain, literal meaning of an text, taken in connection with the context." - John WesleyPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
So would you say there are those that claim to be of Christ be they lay or otherwise, but their actions say otherwise? If so I would ask does this include family, work, politics and how these people interact with others? What I meant by evolve is taking the position of never saying anything to anyone that could be construed as offensive or hatefull by others. Just wondering what Paul would say to a lot of churches today just based on this one scripture?
If you had to preach on this one scripture, what would you say to the church today?
Jim I suspect that Paul is referring to the Judaisers, and those especially who follow the "letter" of the law and "the tradition of the elders" but have no personal experience with God. SOME liturgical types I have met might come close to fitting this description, but most don't, but find in the liturgy a means of grace that draws them closer to God.Are these folks still with us today? I suppose that they are. I don't think that he is talking about apostates though, I'm thinking more toward liturgical types who rely heavily upon church history and tradition might fit the bill. We do know that frequently the traditions of men, make void the word of God.
I myself use liturgy for special occassions like Weddings, Funerals, Baptisms, Dedications and Holy Communion and I find them quite useful to enhance the worship of God and the spiritual experience of the worshippers during such times. But it can be overdone, and it can leave some people "bored" and unresponsive if not used sensitively.... hence in our "regular" services there is most likely no liturgy at all. In fact, some times our praise and testimony times and healing services remind me of the old time holiness folks in worship.
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To follow Christ is to take up your cross. There is no other way. It is not seeking your own life, your own liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I'd probably add 1 Cor 1:22-24 to it, one of my favourite verses:
"For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)Post Thanks / Like - 3 Thanks, 0 Laughing
I would preach on false piety and on idolatry. I would add John 4:24 as a corollary, "God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."
I would warn of making the church and it's programs an idol, we should serve, yet we should never forget who we serve. We should never serve our church at the expense of serving others especially our family.
I would warn of making the Lord's Table into an idol. "Do this in remembrance of me." This is a memorial, this is a remembrance of the one whom we serve. The tokens are simply that, they are bread and grape juice, nothing more. No hocus pocus, no magic. Remember Him, draw closer.
I would warn of making music or liturgy an idol. We seek to honor and worship Him, the way we do so is a medium without value on it's own.
I'm thinking that as I think about it, I would add more, I would close with the observation that those who make the church the object of their worship are not fit to serve.
That is my take away of the passage in Titus, I must admit that it has been formed somewhat on three powerful sermons given some 30 years ago by Rev. Johnson at the Village Church in Washington, ME. I'll never forget the words of Titus 1:12 as he opened the service week after week with those words. Great passage!
-Jim
To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.
Garrison Keillor
Could this verse also apply to those who profess to know God but openly support things in the community that are not pleasing to God? Examples such as: Christian owned business but the owner does not seem bothered in cheating or lying to enhance his business. Or the educator that teaches that all things are relevant. Or the potitician that knows God during election cycles and then does what he thinks is right in the sight of men? Or the charities that raise money to help the poor but spend 80% of what they raise on operating costs. Or the church that will not help local charities run by others that do not belong to their denomination.
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Yes I think that this passage can be expanded to include some of this, however the thrust of the passage is in reference to leadership qualifications.
A couple of your examples rise, I think, to a greater level and concern. A business person who claims to be a brother, but is also a cheat? A politician who claims to be a brother, and yet supports things that run contrary to the church's teachings? I'm thinking that 1 Cor. 5 may be applicable depending upon the circumstances.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
-Jim
To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.
Garrison Keillor
No, not quite. Every single Christian can be found to have said something not so nice at some point. The difference is whether such incidents are aberrations or the norm.
If someone continually abandons a Christian or Biblical worldview in their day to day life it will show. Regardless of who they are in a church setting or how they act to their family, their overall actions and words are what determines whether they believe.
I would not forget that the Gospel itself is offensive. Simply saying that something is "offensive or hurtful to others" doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong to say.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ALL DIMENSIONS ARE BASIC.
Try all things by the written word, and let all bow down before it. You are in danger of [fanaticism] every hour, if you depart ever so little from Scripture; yea, or from the plain, literal meaning of an text, taken in connection with the context." - John Wesley
Good points. But no one has answered the part of my question about what would Paul say to our churches today based on this scripture.
Mike, I think in context, the passage is about the importance of developing church leaders who are solid in the faith and steady in their relationship to society. There are a lot of people out there who don't measure up. Some are downright dishonest or aren't self disciplined or have moral problems. Some have an agenda that doesn't measure up to that of Christ. Some have a form of Christianity, but they believe in a "Christianity plus" something else.
With that in mind, Paul directs Titus to appoint elders in each town, but to be careful to only empower people who are firm in the faith and will represent Christ well in the community. He has noted that in Crete, in particular, there are many people who don't measure up to that standard.
Lessons for the Church today?
1. Leaders should be thoroughly vetted.
2. There is a place for ecclesiastical authority and the denominational model is a way to provide that.
3. Churches do need leaders - some people are uniquely qualified to be given authority in the church.
4. Being a Christian means more than just believing the right things - our faith is to be translated into our behavior out in society.
5. Christianity is about Christ - it's never about "Christ plus" something else.
6. Hang onto your wallet if you visit Crete.
All this off the top of my head - hope it helps.
Edit to add: 7. Paul doesn't think the average layperson should be trusted to select their own pastor. (But I probably wouldn't include this in the sermon)
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I think, just as he did here, would chastise and expel those false teachers and the "unbelievers" from the church.
The passage is to church leadership, I think he would only reference it to speak to church leadership.
Personally I believe Paul would rip into certain Emergent and postmodern leaders while at the same time smacking some more traditional pastors upside their heads.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ALL DIMENSIONS ARE BASIC.
Try all things by the written word, and let all bow down before it. You are in danger of [fanaticism] every hour, if you depart ever so little from Scripture; yea, or from the plain, literal meaning of an text, taken in connection with the context." - John Wesley
What do you mean by this?
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Paul affirms the danger of words in professing Christ but failing to live a holy life.
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