Has anyone used Ray Vander Laan's "Faith Lessons" series of DVD's for groups/classes?

[Rich Schmidt]

Just checking to see if anyone has used Ray Vander Laan's "Faith Lessons" videos and discussion guides for small groups or classes. I'm thinking of starting a new group/class at church that would go through them (12 DVD's so far)... but I've only watched one or two, and it was years ago.

Just looking for feedback from those who may have used them. Did you buy a discussion guide for each group member? Could it work without them? Did you use them in the order they were published? How long are the videos? How long was your group time? And, most importantly: would you recommend the series to someone like me who's thinking of using them?

Here's a link to them all, for those interested: http://family.christianbook.com/Chri...5120?sp=111910

[Lorie Hatcliff]

We have gone through several of them, but most recently The Death and Resurrection of the Messiah. I found it helpful to get the leader's guide which gives possible answers to all of the questions. You , as a pastor may not need that, but as a layperson it helped me elaborate when I was stuck on something. There is a ton of material to cover in one lesson. I believe each dvd lesson was 15-20 minutes We found it difficult to watch the dvd and do it all in 60 minutes. One year we did half the lesson one week and the other half the next. However, that is not ideal. There is a lot of scripture to look up, and I usually spent a long time before each lesson looking it up and copy/pasting it on a pages to give to the participants so they could refer to the sheet instead of looking it all up. That part was very time consuming. You could though just pick and choose certain questions though each week to discuss and not try to cover it all.

I highly recommend the series. As a lay person, it was very eye-opening to see the significance of Biblical places. You will notice that some of the older ones from the 90's look a little dated in clothing and hairstyle, but that didn't bother us....it was just noticeable.

[Rich Schmidt]

We have gone through several of them, but most recently The Death and Resurrection of the Messiah. I found it helpful to get the leader's guide which gives possible answers to all of the questions. You , as a pastor may not need that, but as a layperson it helped me elaborate when I was stuck on something. There is a ton of material to cover in one lesson. I believe each dvd lesson was 15-20 minutes We found it difficult to watch the dvd and do it all in 60 minutes. One year we did half the lesson one week and the other half the next. However, that is not ideal. There is a lot of scripture to look up, and I usually spent a long time before each lesson looking it up and copy/pasting it on a pages to give to the participants so they could refer to the sheet instead of looking it all up. That part was very time consuming. You could though just pick and choose certain questions though each week to discuss and not try to cover it all.

I highly recommend the series. As a lay person, it was very eye-opening to see the significance of Biblical places. You will notice that some of the older ones from the 90's look a little dated in clothing and hairstyle, but that didn't bother us....it was just noticeable.

So it sounds like everyone really needs to have a copy of the discussion guide book... right? I was kind of hoping to avoid that, if possible...

[Lorie Hatcliff]

So it sounds like everyone really needs to have a copy of the discussion guide book... right? I was kind of hoping to avoid that, if possible...

I think it depends on how deep you want to get into the lesson. It's possible that you could just purchase one book---the leader's guide, type out a few questions to cover and run them off. If you did that, you could easily get through one lesson in one hour--ideal for Sunday School. However, if you want to dig deeper and perhaps spend over an hour on each lesson, then it would be helpful to get participant guides. The purpose of our group was to dig a little deeper, plus some wanted to study the material a little beforehand, so everyone ended up getting a book.

One thing you could do is order the dvd and the leader's guide and just look it over so you have an idea of what you want to do. The leader's guide has the exact questions that the participant book has in it. It just has answers along with it, and maybe a couple "extras".

Some other things to note...Our church bought a few of these about 10 years ago. They have since re-vamped some of the older books. So now the covers appear different. The contents are very similar but are not laid out the same way. So, if you do buy them, you'll want to make sure the participant's guide and the leader's guide have the same picture on the front so you know you can literally be on the same page as those in your class. I ordered extra participant guides from Amazon's "used" section. I just had to make sure the pictures on the front were the same.

[Jon Twitchell]

I think they're great... we've used several of them in a variety of contexts.... even just for your own enrichment, I think you'll find them helpful!

I've often bought participant guides, but we found that we didn't use them a lot... so I don't think that they're essential. If you buy the leader's guide and are prepared to watch the material ahead of time, you should be fine.

Some of the older ones have much longer sessions... I tried splitting them in half so we'd have more time for discussion, but I found that didn't really work well.

If you're limited to a 60 minute slot, the discussion will practically lead itself... even if you use 5 minutes at the beginning for prayer requests/prayer, and then watch the video... you'll find that the 30 minutes you have for discussion will fly by! You might consider being open to letting the groups run for 90 minutes as needed.

You wouldn't have to use them in the published order... in fact, you might re-create an order based on chronology of events.

[Jon Twitchell]

Each DVD has between 5 and 8 sessions (I think).

The first 5 in the series are the "Originals" - some of the newer ones (I find) repeat and repackage some (not all) of the information from the first 5. However, there's no problem with repetition!

[Marsha Lynn]

I don't know if I have seen this particular series. I have seen others. The most recent series we completed was something about the being disciples in the dust of the rabbi's steps. We the participants have never had the discussion guides.

OK, some honesty here, which will not make me at all popular with RVL fans.

I'm a little surprised you are looking this direction. Personally, after the first few, I started dozing through the videos when we would do a RVL series. It seemed a better use of my time. (Actually, the last attempt to introduce a new series lasted only one session. I think so many people dozed off while the lights were off for the video and the discussion was so poor that the leader decided to rethink using the series.)

To use terms we have spent time defining around here, I would characterize them as very "modern." RVL is a teacher who has done much research that qualifies him to interpret the Bible accurately for us. His truth seems very cut-and-dry. Here's what the passage says. Here's what it means. These ruins I'm standing in and my knowledge of their history provide proof that my interpretation is correct. What do you think about what we have learned today? Thank you for your acknowledgment of my expertise. Class dismissed.

Obviously many others have a more positive view of his ministry, and maybe your group would be included in that number. Maybe the discussion guides would make a difference, although I can't imagine how. I don't know. These are just my own thoughts on the matter. Thankfully, I am no longer subjected to this teaching.

Marsha

[Cynthia Prentice]

Just checking to see if anyone has used Ray Vander Laan's "Faith Lessons" videos and discussion guides for small groups or classes. I'm thinking of starting a new group/class at church that would go through them (12 DVD's so far)... but I've only watched one or two, and it was years ago.

Just looking for feedback from those who may have used them. Did you buy a discussion guide for each group member? Could it work without them? Did you use them in the order they were published? How long are the videos? How long was your group time? And, most importantly: would you recommend the series to someone like me who's thinking of using them?


Here's a link to them all, for those interested: http://family.christianbook.com/Chri...5120?sp=111910

We have done all of them (twice) and we did not do them in order....even within one dvd we did not do them in order. I'll try to find the list of how I grouped them. We wrote our own devotional lessons to go with each video (except the last few in the series). I also had a stack of cards that was passed around the room, each person taking a card and reading it, that gave extra fun/interesting facts related to the lesson. To help us remember what we had learned I made an item each week that I set in the middle of the table...adding a new item each week that correlated with the lesson. For example, at the end of our first lesson it talks about an acacia tree so I made a small replica of the acacia (one of my favorite symbols), the second week is Living Water and I had a small table top relaxation fountain, the third week was When Storms Come, and I had a small boat...etc. Here is a sample of the first lesson we did, The Lord is My Shepherd. I copied Day 1-Day 3 (there are 6 per week). The lessons are written on a 6.5-7.0 grade reading level. Our people, for the most part, do not read for pleasure. The goal was to meet them at their level.

The Lord is My Shepherd
Day 1 ... Sometimes life can be like a wilderness. Isn't it wonderful to know that we don't have to walk through our "wilderness" alone. Our devotions this week have a few questions in them. You can answer the questions by filling in the blanks or you can just think and reflect on the questions without writing...the important thing isn't the writing...it's the thinking. Try to find a few quiet moments today to reflect on this verse.

“The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want..." Psalm 23:1

Here in Texas we see a lot of cows, but we don’t see many sheep…at least where I come from. Maybe you know a little about sheep…not me…so I did some research. It didn’t take long to learn that sheep just can't make it on their own. I mean really! If they don’t have a shepherd they are history.

Back in the Bible days, sheep needed a shepherd just as much as they do now. Without a shepherd they would fall off cliffs, drown in wadis (a wadi is a narrow canyon that is dry except for in the rainy season…then it’s full of roaring water), they would be eaten for supper by jackals or leopards. Sheep depended on their shepherd for everything...I mean everything...because…now pay attention here…sheep are pretty dumb critters. And to be a sheep…in the wilderness…without a shepherd…it just didn’t get much more dangerous than that.

Life is a lot like that for us...and like the sheep we just can't make it on our own. We need a shepherd.

Does your world ever feel like a dangerous wilderness?


When the going gets rough and dangerous do you have a loving shepherd that you follow? If you do...think about how it helps.

If you don't...think about what it would be like to have a loving shepherd lead you.

During the day the sheep would follow their shepherd...but as it became night the shepherd would walk with his sheep…right there…next to them. They knew he was there. They could hear his voice and they felt calmer…safer. At night he would lead them to their sheepfold and then he would lie down in the gate. He guarded them through the night and kept them safe.

I have a Good Shepherd…and he is with me through each day and night. When the "night" comes...you know... those really tough, hard times that we all go through...the times when we can't see our way... what we need most is to find our shepherd and be comforted by his presence. He's always there, calling, waiting, for us to follow Him. He is my shepherd…and I am his sheep.

Let’s read Mark 6:34 (Jesus compares a group of people to sheep).

When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things. Mark 6:34

Jesus knew the people were like sheep without a shepherd...and just like Jesus felt compassion for them...he feels that same compassion for you and for me. Isn’t that a wonderful thought? Jesus feels compassion for you and me. There is a Shepherd…all we have to do is choose to follow him.

Good for you...you finished Day 1. It didn't take that long did it? As I drift off to sleep tonight, I am going to think about my Shepherd, Jesus... guarding the gate to keep me safe while I sleep. What a loving God we serve.




Day 2 ... One thing we have in common with sheep is that we get hungry each day. Try to find a few quiet moments today to reflect on this verse.

"He makes me lie down in green pastures;" Psalm 23:2

The pastures of Israel are definitively not like the knee-deep lush, green fields of Ireland. They don't look like pastures at all. They look like rocky, barren hillsides. Have you ever hunted for Easter eggs? Well that is what it is like looking for grass in the wilderness. It's there but it's scattered amidst the rocks. The sheep would starve without the shepherd to find enough grass for them each day.

Somehow when I was growing up I never pictured sheep grazing in the wilderness…but that is exactly what they do. The fertile land in Israel is used to grow crops. Sheep graze in the wilderness…or on the edge of the wilderness. That puts a whole new picture on so much of the shepherd language in the Old Testament. Talk about trust! Every day the shepherd would have to find the grass for the sheep and then lead them there. And the next day he would do the same. And the next. And the next. It was a daily reliance on the shepherd for their very survival…what an incredible picture.

As followers of Jesus, God wants us to trust Him day by day. The Good Shepherd doesn't promise us a life that is problem free, but he will give us the green grass we need for this moment...for this day. Do we really trust Him?

I know that there are times when worry and despair seem to wash over me. When was the last time you were filled with worry about tomorrow? We have a shepherd…and we can trust him. We just have to remember that he IS REAL…and that we can follow him. In Matthew chapter 6 we find the "Lord's Prayer"...some of you may know it as the "Our Father". In verse 11 Jesus talks about each day's need for bread.

Give us today our daily bread. Matthew 6:11

Are we told to ask for monthly bread, weekly bread...or daily bread?

God so wants us to bring our worry to Him. It is a daily walk...a daily relationship. You may not see it now, but a new tuft of grass will be there in the morning. He really is our Shepherd.

Good for you! You finished Day 2. When you wake in the morning the Shepherd will be right there with you.


Day 3 ... There is one thing we need each day even more than food. That's right...water! Now I know some of you say you don't drink water...but you do...just look on your soft drink label...see there it is...water. Try to find a few quiet moments today to reflect on this verse.

"He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul." Psalm 23:2-3

Ok...let's pretend...it's 5:30pm Friday afternoon and you’re at Wal-Mart...(I know your smarter than to go to Wal-Mart at 5:30pm on Friday but it's pretend) and you've been in the checkout line for 45 minutes...it's hot...you're tired...you're thirsty...you reach for a bottle of water (Coke, Dr. Pepper etc.) and just as you pick up your bottle the entire drink machine jumps off the ground and body slams you to the ground. Not a pretty picture is it. Aren’t you glad this was only pretend!

What do you believe is the most frequent cause of death in the wilderness? Did I hear you say starvation, thirst…maybe heat stroke? Would you believe that that most wilderness deaths happen because of floods? That's right...drowning in the desert. The sky can be clear, the sun shining, and suddenly a wall of water can roar through the narrow canyon. Anyone in the wadi will be washed away. That is what can happen to a sheep who finds his own water without the shepherd. Instead of getting a drink he is slammed to the ground and swept away.

It seems that people are so thirsty today…and they don’t always drink safe water…sometimes they try to quench their thirst with money, people, and power. And then there are those that stand in the middle of the wadi…while the flash flood siren is blaring…and quench their thirst on sex, drugs, alcohol. There is no quicker way to drown. Dangerous waters...safe waters...the choices are ours.

What are some of the "waters" people are thirsting for today?
Only our Shepherd knows what waters are safe for us to drink. There is a part of every person that is empty or "thirsty" for God. I want you to read Psalm 63:1-8. It was written in the wilderness. If you have ever been really, really, thirsty try to think of that time when you read these verses.

Psalm 63 A Psalm of David When he was in the Desert of Judah.

O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in the sanctuary and beheld your power and your glory. Because your love is better than life, my lips will glorify you.
I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands. My soul will be satisfied as with the richest of foods; withsinging lips my mouth will praise you.

On my bed I remember you; I think of you through the watches of the night. Because you are my help, I sing in the shadow of your wings. My soul clings to you; your right handupholds me. Psalm 63:1-8

In verse 5 the writer says "My soul will be satisfied..." Isn't that what just about everyone you know is searching for....they may be looking in the wrong places...but they want to get to a place where there is no anguish, worry, rejection, or pain. Maybe you can tell someone about that verse this week...someone who is really searching for satisfaction and peace...someone who needs a shepherd.

Good for You! You finished Day 3. I can think of nothing safer…warmer…than to sing in the shadow of his wings...thank you Lord.

RVL's lessons helped reshape the heart of our church...turning our focus off of ourselves...and out to the people who live around us. We started the series in 2005.

[Lorie Hatcliff]

We have done all of them (twice) and we did not do them in order....even within one dvd we did not do them in order. I'll try to find the list of how I grouped them. We wrote our own devotional lessons to go with each video (except the last few in the series). I also had a stack of cards that was passed around the room, each person taking a card and reading it, that gave extra fun/interesting facts related to the lesson. To help us remember what we had learned I made an item each week that I set in the middle of the table...adding a new item each week that correlated with the lesson. For example, at the end of our first lesson it talks about an acacia tree so I made a small replica of the acacia (one of my favorite symbols), the second week is Living Water and I had a small table top relaxation fountain, the third week was When Storms Come, and I had a small boat...etc. Here is a sample of the first lesson we did, The Lord is My Shepherd. The devotions are written on a 6.5-7.0 reading level. Our people, for the most part, do not read for pleasure. The goal was to meet them at their level.

That's awesome, Cynthia. The most I ever did with an object lesson in this series was to bring different types of olives to sample when we talked about the olive press in the Garden of Gethsemane. Love your ideas there.

I would add that we did the Death and Resurrection of the Messiah leading up to Easter. It was very meaningful to be doing it through the Lent season. Brought a whole new dimension to it.

[Charlene Clevenger]

We used them back when they were on video tape. We went through them at least twice. They were all excellent. Our pastor still uses some of the thoughts in his messages from time to time.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

Benjamin, I tend to think discussion books get left sitting until the class starts, even if there is helpful homework. I often devise my own handouts, and this usually works. It all depends on how much time the leader has to put into it, really, and how well the leader can punt in group conversation to keep people on track yet encourage discussion, discovery, and learning.

Love love love Ray VL's stuff! Have not seen the most recent series tho.

[Gene Tatsch]

We have all RVL's DVDs. Which I think are fairly slow-paced.
Web-available audio files of some of RVL's teaching sessions push our thinking to new limits - but would require some "self-prep" to lead.

[Rich Schmidt]

OK, so I'm going to order one of the DVD's & Leader's Guide to start with. Anyone have a suggestion for which one would be good to start? Since the order doesn't seem to matter a whole lot, I'd rather it be a more recent one / not one of the "longer" ones Jon mentioned.

Just curious. Thanks for all the feedback! The last time I watched one was on VHS, so it was quite a while ago. I don't remember much about his teaching style, for example (what Marsha mentioned).

Just FYI: In addition to probably using these for a small group study, we're also planning to show them on Sunday nights when we host 3-6 homeless women at our church. (More info here: www.OpenArmsValpo.org.) After dinner, we'll pop one of these in the DVD player, watch it, and then talk about it. Our guests aren't required to participate, but these sound like they would be engaging and interesting and lead to good conversations.

[Cynthia Prentice]

We have all RVL's DVDs. Which I think are fairly slow-paced.
Web-available audio files of some of RVL's teaching sessions push our thinking to new limits - but would require some "self-prep" to lead.

Hi Rich,

Gene has a really great point about the audio files (mp3's that are free). They are incredible...some of them are lectures for college students...another series is a multi-week (at least 28 weeks I think)...series of lectures that can be broken down into smaller segments. RVL is a very animated speaker (much more so than on the videos) and the material is excellent. The down side is you don't have visuals, but I could probably help you with this. If I had to start with a video series I would start with, "Walking with God in the Desert." It is excellent, and especially for your homeless participants I think it would resonate with them in a powerful way.