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Thread: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    It has been a while since I posted about our diet change and thought I would give a quick update on how our new diet, 55-70% fat, 20-30% protein and 5-10% carb is going. (percentages vary by meal)

    When I say diet, I don't mean weight loss diet (although we have lost weight), but a permanent change in our eating. The fat is mostly saturated fat in the form of coconut oil, and animal fat in the meat we eat, as well as the fat in the three eggs we eat each day. We also get fat from flax seed meal.

    The first immediate benefit we have all experienced is that we are almost never hungry. For breakfast we have a 716 calorie shake (recipe below) and we don't really get hungry again for about 6-8 hours. Many days we only eat breakfast and then our main dinner meal because we are just not hungry enough for a traditional breakfast, lunch, supper. Paul was the one who was the most skeptical that our shake would keep him full until lunch. There have been many days that after drinking the shake he has not eaten again for 8 hours. He was amazed...and he LOVES his breakfast shake.

    The second benefit is that while we are not hungry, we do not ever feel stuffed or uncomfortably full as our stomachs do not have as much bulk in them. Literally the volume of food is quite a bit reduced. We do not have that "uck" I've eaten too much feeling.

    The third benefit is that our food tastes SO INCREDIBLY GOOD! It is rich, but because there are not many grams of carbohydrate (6-20g per meal), the yuck feeling that can come from rich food is not there.

    The fourth benefit is that this diet has increased our alertness and almost eliminated the brain fog, blood-sugar crash feeling/fatigue that we used to experience when eating whole grain/high fiber cereal and milk for breakfast.

    To date our 16 year old son has lost 40 pounds, I've lost 25 and Paul has lost 15 (he didn't have much he needed to lose) almost effortlessly and without hunger. Our son was in to see his doctor for a sore throat and they decided to do a lipid panel even though he had not fasted. When we were in for a follow up visit four days later we got his results. His cholesterol was great, HDL was right at 60, and his triglycerides were an amazing 82. This was about 5 hours after his high fat breakfast shake. His doctor, who we have known for 13 years, was blown over by his his numbers...especially because they were good by fasting standards...but they were non fasting numbers. Paul and I will have our lipids tested sometime in November.

    She just set the chart down and said, whatever you are doing...keep doing it...tell me how you got these numbers and this weight loss in a teenager who LOVES what he eats. We started talking as we were her last appointment for the day. We told her it was a low carb diet, which she assumed meant lots of vegetables and skinless chicken. We told her no...and then we explained the research we had done and the high fat diet we had chosen because of its positive effect on blood lipid numbers, support of brain and nerve function and its support of our bodies hormone system, and specifically our fat of choice being the saturated fat in coconut oil because when metabolized in the liver produces* ketone bodies and its anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-viral properties. (see pub med studies on lauric acid)

    She said she had no idea there was a food that metabolized into ketone bodies, and that the only ketone bodies she was familiar with were those produced by a ketogenic diet (90-95% fat) that was used many years ago to control epilepsy. She was fascinated. You could just see the wheels starting to turn. We probably talked for an hour and it ended with her asking us to send her our recipes. I left with her personal email address and an instruction to keep doing what we were doing.

    Every cell in our body is dependent on fat to maintain its structure, all our hormone production is dependent on fat. There is good agreement that 2/3rd of our brain is made up of fat. Many sources indicate 60-80% fat. Most nerve fibers inside and outside the brain are wrapped with many layers of tissue composed of a fat (lipoprotein) called myelin. These layers form the myelin sheath. Much like the insulation around an electrical wire, the myelin sheath enables electrical impulses to be conducted along the nerve fiber with speed and accuracy. When the myelin sheath is damaged, nerves do not conduct electrical impulses normally. Sometimes the nerve fibers are also damaged. In adults, the myelin sheath can be destroyed by stroke, inflammation, immune disorders, metabolic disorders, and nutritional deficiencies. My husband Paul, suffered four concussions as a youth, a debilitating case of encephalomeningitis in 1997 that left him paralyzed and unable to speak for a while, and a horrible brain assault in the way of a rare reaction to Levaquin called toxic encephelopathy in 2009. We picked this diet because of the repeated assaults on his brain, although he appears healthy now, put him at a higher risk for things like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, etc. That may have been why we picked it...but wow....we LOVE it! There is ongoing research on about the ability of lauric acid (and the ketones it produces) to help repair brains after brain injuries. There are also studies regarding its benefit to people with autism.

    As someone who studied clinical nutrition, I truly believe that in 10 years our idea of what constitutes a healthy diet will look completely different than the low fat diet recommendations of the last 30 years.

    Here is our breakfast shake recipe:

    1 cup low carb chocolate milk (Calorie Countdown)
    3 raw pasteurized eggs (3 room temp eggs cover water, heat to 140 deg, take off heat and cover for 3 minutes, cover with cool water until cool)
    2 Tbs coconut oil
    1 Tbs natural peanut butter
    1 Tbs cocoa powder
    1 Tbs golden flax meal
    1 tsp psyllium husk fiber
    sweetener - stevia drops and/or liquid sucralose (splenda) to taste
    10 skinny ice cubes

    Blend until smooth in blender - makes a HUGE chocolate shake (we drink ours in a quart mason jar) that tastes out of this world. Seventy-five percent of the calories come from fat.

    I'll let anyone interested know how it goes with our lab results in November.

    (For dinner last night we had chicken breasts wrapped in bacon, smothered in a mixture of alfredo sauce and sour cream, cooked on low until the chicken cut like butter, and we had green beans as our side dish)

    Blessings,

    Cynthia

    *Saturated fat in the form of coconut oil, is made up of medium chain triglycerides that are metabolized into ketone bodies that can be used for fuel and the saturated fat is 65% medium chain triglycerides, which when eaten are transformed into monoglycerides and medium-chain fatty acid. If you are interested in some of the published material, go to pub med and enter ketone or lauric acid into the search box. You can also go to government trials and enter ketone or lauric acid to see some of the trials that are planned or underway.

    ** We usually use virgin coconut oil for the shake because we like the coconut flavor. We use Louana for everything else.
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    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 27th, 2012 at 04:15 PM.
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    Host Photography Forum Dana Grant's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Cynthia,

    I just did some research on line about coconut oil and its benefit to Alzheimer patients......it started with a video on youtube of a doctor who did some research on the use of the coconut oil because of the medium chain triglycerides, which are not present in other oils like olive oil, etc. Very interesting.
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Grant View Post
    Cynthia,

    I just did some research on line about coconut oil and its benefit to Alzheimer patients......it started with a video on youtube of a doctor who did some research on the use of the coconut oil because of the medium chain triglycerides, which are not present in other oils like olive oil, etc. Very interesting.
    Hi Dana,

    Was the video you saw Dr. Mary Newport? Dr. Newport has closely followed the research for NIH's Dr. Richard Veech, a pioneer in ketone body research. She has also served as a friend and an advocate to try to raise awareness of the need for funding of his research on a concentrated Ketone Ester that is 10 times the amount of ketones produced by the metabolism of coconut oil. Dr. Veech studied under Dr. Krebs (the "Krebs Cycle" Krebs) and returned to his lab every year until Krebs died. Here is an excellent article that sums up what Dr. Veech's research is all about. I've communicated some with Dr. Newport through emails and she is a great lady. A University of Oxford study of the effect of Dr. Veech's Ketone Ester therapy on Parkinsons's Disease is currently recruiting. Parkinson's was chosen instead of Alzheimer's because it is very measurable and can be done in a month compared to a one year Alzheimer's study. There are also ketone ester studies underway at the University of Florida.


    Parkinson's trial ketone ester - http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...=ketone&rank=3 currently recruiting
    Clinical trial testing lauric acid (lauric acid is the MCT in coconut oil) on H Pylori bacteria that causes ulcers. - http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...ic+acid&rank=1 currently recruiting
    Current ketone trials listed at Clinicaltrials.gov - http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/result...&Search=Search

    Published Peer Reviewed articles from Pub Med on Ketones - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=ketone
    Published Peer Reviewed articles from Pub Med on Lauric Acid - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=lauric%20acid
    Published Peer Reviewed articles from Pub Med by Richard Veech - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=veech%20RL

    http://www.phschool.com/science/scie...he_rescue.html article from 2003 but a good summary.


    Ketones to the Rescue
    Fashioning therapies from an adaptation to starvation
    Ben Harder

    In times of plenty, both the mind and the body thrive. But deprived of basic sustenance, the mind perishes before the body does. That's not New Age philosophy; it's basic metabolic chemistry. While most of the body manages food shortages with relative ease, the tissues of the brain are vulnerable during periods of scarcity. So when blood sugar dips, the brain must fall back on special biochemistry to meet its energy needs. From studying that metabolic back-up system, a coterie of scientists has drawn inspiration that could lead to a new treatment for conditions as diverse as epilepsy, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, and heart failure.

    Most of the time, the body makes its fundamental fuel, glucose, from ingested carbohydrates. With each meal, the bloodstream gets replenished with glucose to replace the blood sugar that hungry cells have consumed to satisfy their metabolic needs. The body can't store glucose well, yet cells must be fed continually. So the body puts away extra energy in the form of fat, which it can break down into energy-supplying fatty acids when needed. A starving animal or a person with normal fat stores can thus sustain most of the body's cells for weeks or months without eating.

    But brain cells, even hungry ones, can't avail themselves of these emergency stores. A physiological barrier that blocks toxins in the bloodstream so they can't enter the delicate brain also keeps out fat and fatty acids. As a consequence, when glucose in the blood runs low, brain cells can run into trouble.

    People are uniquely vulnerable to such glucose starvation because of their disproportionate braininess. Although the brain makes up about 2 percent of a normal adult's weight, it commands roughly 20 percent of the body's resting metabolic budget.

    A condition found only in people and a few ruminants can protect against this Achilles' heel. The state, known to followers of the popular Atkins diet, is called ketosis. When blood-glucose concentrations get low, the liver converts a portion of fatty acids into acids called ketone bodies or ketones. These substances can substitute for glucose and fatty acids as cellular fuel. However, unlike fatty acids, ketones can penetrate the blood-brain barrier.

    While ketosis may guard the brain in times of starvation, Richard L. Veech has additional applications in mind. Veech, who works at the National Institutes of Health in Rockville, Md., argues that ketones might be therapeutic any time cells are threatened by energy deprivation. Such threats could arise both from a lack of fuels and from cells' failure to properly metabolize the fuels at their disposal. The latter category covers a broad array of diseases.

    Veech and others have been suggesting for several years that ketosis could help treat, among other conditions, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases, certain insulin disorders such as type 1 diabetes, and several metabolic disorders caused by rare mutations.

    "These diseases appear wildly different," Veech says. Treating "all these different things with some magic substance sounds improbable," he adds. Yet across a wide range of specialties, doctors who've dabbled with ketone-based therapies are warming to that seemingly outlandish idea, and a vanguard of research on ketone therapies is appearing in scientific journals. At NIH earlier this fall, Veech hosted a gathering of researchers who have studied ketones.

    Ketone cuisine
    There is one medical condition in which ketones find proven, if limited, application. Since the 1920s, a ketosis-inducing diet has been used to treat some cases of severe childhood epilepsy. This high-fat, low-protein, low-carb regimen shifts the body's main fuel supply from glucose to ketones and fatty acids. This ketogenic diet is more extreme than the high-protein Atkins diet, which produces ketones in urine but not necessarily in the blood, says Veech.

    Whereas most people consume less than a third of their calories in the form of fat and the rest as carbohydrates or protein, people on the medical ketogenic diet obtain at least two-thirds of their calories from fat.

    "It's a hideous diet," says Kieran Clarke of the University of Oxford in England, who attended Veech's summit. "Think of eating pounds of butter at a time, and eating cream on top of that," she says. Not surprisingly, many children find the diet unpalatable. In studies, refusal to eat has been a primary cause for the treatment's failure. Implementing the diet, furthermore, usually requires a hospital stay and the involvement of numerous dietitians and pediatricians. Enforcing it requires parents to weigh foods and calculate ratios of calories from different sources.

    With the widespread introduction in the 1960s of more effective drugs for epilepsy, the unwieldy diet's use declined. Its reputation has recently enjoyed a resurgence, however, because some seizures that had been resistant to the drugs were observed to stop during ketosis. The well-publicized case of one boy, whom doctors at Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore successfully treated with the ketogenic diet, inspired the 1997 movie First Do No Harm.

    Even so, no more than a few hundred people in the United States are on the medical ketogenic diet at any one time, estimates Eileen P.G. Vining, a pediatric neurologist at Johns Hopkins. For one thing, she says, it's prescribed almost exclusively for children because doctors are concerned about the heart attack risk that adults might face from chowing down on so much fat.

    To get a feel for how serious the side effects of the ketogenic diet might be, Vining, Peter O. Kwiterovich, and their colleagues studied 141 epileptic children they'd treated for at least 6 months at Johns Hopkins since 1994. The children's blood concentrations of total cholesterol, triglycerides, and other markers associated with cardiovascular disease had jumped by as much as 60 percent during the ketogenic treatment. Meanwhile, blood concentrations of high-density lipoproteins, or good cholesterol, fell by an average of 13 percent, the researchers reported in the Aug. 20 Journal of the American Medical Association.

    Even if those numbers translate into a health risk for children on a ketogenic diet, which is far from certain, "it's a price worth paying" when children are wracked by drug-resistant seizures, Vining contends.

    Nevertheless, there could be a better way. Studies suggest that certain ketones are directly involved in inhibiting seizures. That raises the possibility of supplanting the ketogenic diet with pure ketones as drugs.

    Rescue mission
    Limited quantities of ketones are produced for research purposes, but they are expensive and difficult to test because the body breaks them down quickly. Nevertheless, neurologist Serge Przedborski of Columbia University is experimenting with ketones. Przedborski's main research interest is Parkinson's disease (SN: 5/3/03, p. 285: Available to subscribers at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030503/note10.asp), the symptoms of which include tremors, muscle stiffness, and loss of balance and coordination. The physiological hallmark of Parkinson's is the loss of certain neurons that respond to the brain chemical dopamine.

    The degeneration of those neurons and of similar brain cells in Alzheimer's disease has been linked to defects in the cells' energy-producing machinery, or mitochondria. In both diseases, mitochondria in some neurons are inefficient at metabolizing glucose. But the process by which mitochondria metabolize ketones isn't necessarily impaired in the two diseases.

    Veech, Clarke, and four of their colleagues from Japan demonstrated 3 years ago that, in test tubes, the ketone D-beta-hydroxybutyrate protects neurons that have the mitochondrial defects associated with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

    To test the effectiveness of the approach in animals, Przedborski and his colleagues implanted into some laboratory mice a pump that gradually released D-beta-hydroxybutyrate, and into other mice a dummy pump. A day later, the researchers gave the animals a neurotoxin that inhibits glucose metabolism in the critical neurons. That procedure is commonly used in the lab to induce a condition similar to Parkinson's disease.

    After a week, the researchers counted surviving neurons. While mice given dummy pumps had lost about two-thirds of a certain neuron type associated with Parkinson's, mice treated with 160 milligrams of D-beta-hydroxybutyrate per kilogram of body weight per day appeared to have lost only one-third of those cells. Mice receiving lower doses of the ketone didn't fare noticeably better than the animals that had gotten the dummy pumps.

    "It's not a dramatic effect," Przedborski acknowledges. "But, sure enough, we were able to recover some of the function of the mitochondria." Most important, the scientists report in the September Journal of Clinical Investigation, the high dose of the ketone prevented the mice from developing Parkinson's-like movement problems.

    To confirm that defective mitochondria use ketones to detour around their obstructed metabolic pathway, Przedborski's team administered a second toxin, which interferes with ketone metabolism. In mice with both metabolic pathways blocked, the ketone therapy didn't rescue any neurons.

    The Columbia researchers' findings support the idea that ketones could help people with Parkinson's disease, says Theodore B. VanItallie of St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center in New York City. "There's enough evidence available now to encourage people to test the hypothesis," he says. "There's at least a reasonable possibility that these things [ketones] will work."

    VanItallie and his colleagues recently put several people with Parkinson's disease on a ketogenic diet, but the researchers haven't yet gathered enough data to draw conclusions. VanItallie is looking for funding to mount a full-size trial.

    Diabetes, too, can affect the brain. Children with type-1 diabetes lose some mental acuity when their glucose metabolism slows, says Jullie W. Pan of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York. That can eventually affect their academic performance.

    In type 1 diabetes, the body doesn't have enough insulin to do its normal job of transporting glucose into cells that would metabolize it. In fact, ketosis is a symptom of diabetic shock because it arises when glucose metabolism is suppressed. Insulin injections can boost glucose metabolism, but blood insulin can vary considerably between injections.

    Pan is now studying the effect of ketone infusions in diabetic children to see whether the therapy might compensate for the effects of glucose-metabolism fluctuations on the brain.

    Putting heart into it
    Brain effects of low glucose availability aren't the only problems that ketones could conceivably fight. An international team of doctors recently reported successes in using ketones to treat three children with the rare genetic disease known as multiple acyl-CoA dehydrogenase deficiency, or MADD. The metabolic defect renders the body unable to process certain fatty acids. A low-fat diet and other interventions sometimes help affected children, but weakened muscles, particularly heart muscles, and damage to other tissues can lead to early death.

    The first child the researchers treated with ketones was a 2-year-old boy receiving standard treatment for MADD who suddenly developed quadriplegia and could no longer speak. To supply energy to poorly functioning cells, doctors gave the boy oral doses of ketones every 4 hours. The boy recovered gradually until, after 19 months of the ketone therapy, he could again walk unassisted, a development that NIH's Veech hails as remarkable.

    The researchers subsequently gave the same treatment to two other children with MADD, both of whom had suffered heart failure. These patients showed substantial recovery, pediatrician Johan L.K. Van Hove, now at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver, and his colleagues reported in the April 26 Lancet.

    Oxford's Clarke suggests that ketones could treat heart failure from other muscle-weakening causes, as well. One hypothesis of heart disease suggests that a heart can gradually fail after a nonfatal heart attack because the organ's muscle cells become inefficient at both taking up glucose and metabolizing fatty acids, says Clarke. Ketones could provide heart muscle with an alternative energy source. Clarke is experimenting on failure-prone rat hearts to test this idea.

    If this treatment is ever to be practical, an abundant and reasonably inexpensive source of purified ketones will be needed, she says. "The only way now we can produce ketones in the body is a high-fat diet," she says. "You couldn't feed a high-fat diet to a heart-failure patient. That would be a disaster."

    Even in the small amounts needed by the children that Van Hove and his colleagues treated, purified ketones could cost $20,000 per patient per year, says Veech. The higher quantity of ketones that an adult would require would lead to even more expense.

    That's only a temporary obstacle, according to Veech. In the lab, scientists can already use bacteria to manufacture a compound that can be processed into ketones. If researchers can improve on the current method for refining the precursor, then ketones could be inexpensively produced, he says, and his theories about their broad medical effectiveness could be put to the test.

    ********

    Letters:
    This article describes attempts to use ketones as a substitute for glucose when it's unavailable to the brain because converted fats can't penetrate the brain. Wouldn't it be simpler to feed or inject glucose directly?

    Oliver H. Winn
    Corona del Mar, CA

    The researchers who conducted the study say that giving glucose might help in some cases, but the conditions discussed in the article involve a defect in glucose metabolism.—B. Harder

    References:
    Kashiwaya, Y. … K. Clarke, and R.L. Veech. 2000. D-β-hydroxybutyrate protects neurons in models of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97(May 9):5440–5444. Available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.97.10.5440.

    Kwiterovich, P.O., E.P.G. Vining, et al. 2003. Effect of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of lipids, lipoproteins, and apolipoproteins in children. Journal of the American Medical Association 290(Aug. 20):912–920. Abstract available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1001/jama.290.7.912.

    Tieu, K. … and S. Przedborski. 2003. D-β-hydroxybutyrate rescues mitochondrial respiration and mitigates features of Parkinson disease. Journal of Clinical Investigation 112(Sep. 15):892–901. Available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1172/JCI200318797.

    Van Hove, J.L.K., et al. 2003. D,L-3-hydroxybutyrate treatment of multiple acyl-CoA dehydrogenase deficiency (MADD). Lancet 361(April 26):1433–1435. Summary available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(03)13105-4.

    Vanitallie, T.B., and T.H. Nufert. 2003. Ketones: Metabolism's ugly duckling. Nutrition Reviews 61(October):327–341. Abstract available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1301/nr.2003.oct.327-341.

    Veech, R.L., et al. 2001. Ketone bodies, potential therapeutic uses. IUBMB Life 51:241–247. Abstract available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/152165401753311780.

    Further Readings:
    Seppa, N. 2003. Protein implicated in Parkinson's disease. Science News 163(May 3):285. Available to subscribers at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030503/note10.asp.

    Sources:
    Kieran Clarke
    Department of Biochemistry
    University of Oxford
    Oxford OX1 3QU
    United Kingdom

    Philippe Demaerel
    Department of Radiology
    University Hospital Gasthuisberg
    Katholieke Universiteit Leuven
    B-3000 Leuven
    Belgium

    Peter O. Kwiterovich
    Lipid Research Atherosclerosis Division
    Johns Hopkins University
    Lipid Clinic
    550 North Broadway
    Suite 308
    Baltimore, MD 21205

    Jullie W. Pan
    Department of Neurology and Neuroscience
    The Gruss Magnetic Resonance Research Center
    Room 211
    Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University
    1300 Morris Park Avenue
    Bronx, NY 10461

    Serge Przedborski
    BB-307
    Columbia University
    650 West 168th Street
    New York, NY 10032

    Kim Tieu
    Department of Neurology
    Columbia University
    650 West 168th Street
    New York, NY 10032

    Johan L.K. Van Hove
    Department of Pediatrics
    Box C233
    University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
    4200 East Ninth Avenue
    Denver, CO 80262

    Theodore B. Vanitallie
    1678 Jose Gaspar Drive
    Boca Grande, FL 33921

    Richard L. Veech
    Unit on Metabolic Control
    Laboratory of Membrane Biochemistry and Biophysics
    National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
    12501 Washington Avenue
    Rockville, MD 20852

    Eileen P.G. Vining
    Pediatric Epilepsy Center
    Department of Pediatrics
    Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions
    Baltimore, MD 21205


    From Science News, Volume 164, No. 24, December 13, 2003, p. 376.
    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 27th, 2012 at 08:06 AM.
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    Senior Member Marian Schwaller Carney's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    I am going to try the shale, and use almond butter. I use only olive oil and cocoanut oil in daily things, the occasional butter, and also have flax oil on hand, and avocado oil for salads. The low carb = low sugar and that is good for the brain and all our organs. Very interesting stuff here, Cynthia, thanks for chronicling it here in such detail.
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    AS to the toxic effects the Levaquin produced in your husband's brain, you might consider becoming acquainted with the Quinolone Vigilance Foundation, if you haven't already. Paul is one of thousands who have experienced negative side effects and he is one of the lucky ones, as many have lost their lives and others have a permanently diminished quality of life. Quinolone or Fluoroquinolone is the class of drugs and Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, and others are in this class, and they have a Black Box Warning. Anti-depressants, as well as some other drugs, also carry a Black Box Warning.

    Thanks for your detailed and well-researched post,

    -et-

    ~~~~~
    Thanks Betty Bolerjack, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Edith Thurmond View Post
    AS to the toxic effects the Levaquin produced in your husband's brain, you might consider becoming acquainted with the Quinolone Vigilance Foundation, if you haven't already. Paul is one of thousands who have experienced negative side effects and he is one of the lucky ones, as many have lost their lives and others have a permanently diminished quality of life. Quinolone or Fluoroquinolone is the class of drugs and Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, and others are in this class, and they have a Black Box Warning. Anti-depressants, as well as some other drugs, also carry a Black Box Warning.

    Thanks for your detailed and well-researched post,

    -et-

    ~~~~~
    Thank you so much Edith...we feel so very blessed that Paul has recovered from this horrific experience. It was not a quick recovery and did cause some brain damage. Thankfully Paul has continued to improve. We are about to reach our three year anniversary of this brain assault. A relative on my side of the family also had a devastating reaction to a quinolone, Avalox, and because it is on both sides of our family, both of our children's doctors told us that unless they will die without a flouroquinolone, they are never to take one for the duration of their life.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    Thank you so much Edith...we feel so very blessed that Paul has recovered from this horrific experience. It was not a quick recovery and did cause some brain damage. Thankfully Paul has continued to improve. We are about to reach our three year anniversary of this brain assault. A relative on my side of the family also had a devastating reaction to a quinolone, Avalox, and because it is on both sides of our family, both of our children's doctors told us that unless they will die without a flouroquinolone, they are never to take one for the duration of their life.
    Lovely.....that is about the only class of anti-biotics that my dad finds any help with his chronic sinus infections...and it also not allergic to. I looked at the black box warning for levaquin. It said tendonitis. He has had problems with that already. Wonder what else is going to go wrong now. Thankfully, since moving to a house with better air, he has not had as many sinus infections.
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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Unger View Post
    Lovely.....that is about the only class of anti-biotics that my dad finds any help with his chronic sinus infections...and it also not allergic to. I looked at the black box warning for levaquin. It said tendonitis. He has had problems with that already. Wonder what else is going to go wrong now. Thankfully, since moving to a house with better air, he has not had as many sinus infections.
    If a person can tolerate a quinolone it is a very effective, life saving antibiotic.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Edith Thurmond View Post
    AS to the toxic effects the Levaquin produced in your husband's brain, you might consider becoming acquainted with the Quinolone Vigilance Foundation, if you haven't already. Paul is one of thousands who have experienced negative side effects and he is one of the lucky ones, as many have lost their lives and others have a permanently diminished quality of life. Quinolone or Fluoroquinolone is the class of drugs and Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, and others are in this class, and they have a Black Box Warning. Anti-depressants, as well as some other drugs, also carry a Black Box Warning.

    Thanks for your detailed and well-researched post,

    -et-

    ~~~~~
    I can tell you first hand how bad some of the side effects of these meds can be. I ended up going to three hospitals in one week and no one could figure out why I look like I was in the final stages of Parkinson. All my test where clear but my whole nervous system was out of whack I could not speak correctly or really walk. Once we figured out that the it was the meds. I had to deal with extreme depression and anxiety that I was being able to maintain relatively well. Pretty much ever since I have had to be on multiply antidepressants at the same time. I did find out that I can not take SSRIs really or I get pretty bad depression and suicidal thoughts.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    If a person can tolerate a quinolone it is a very effective, life saving antibiotic.
    I am one who can't tolerate that class. I tried Avelox once and thought the cure would kill me faster than the illness.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    I can tell you first hand how bad some of the side effects of these meds can be. I ended up going to three hospitals in one week and no one could figure out why I look like I was in the final stages of Parkinson. All my test where clear but my whole nervous system was out of whack I could not speak correctly or really walk. Once we figured out that the it was the meds. I had to deal with extreme depression and anxiety that I was being able to maintain relatively well. Pretty much ever since I have had to be on multiply antidepressants at the same time. I did find out that I can not take SSRIs really or I get pretty bad depression and suicidal thoughts.
    Ugh! Feel for you my friend. I am not that bad, but I, too, have a lot of meds of which I am intolerant.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    I can tell you first hand how bad some of the side effects of these meds can be. I ended up going to three hospitals in one week and no one could figure out why I look like I was in the final stages of Parkinson. All my test where clear but my whole nervous system was out of whack I could not speak correctly or really walk. Once we figured out that the it was the meds. I had to deal with extreme depression and anxiety that I was being able to maintain relatively well. Pretty much ever since I have had to be on multiply antidepressants at the same time. I did find out that I can not take SSRIs really or I get pretty bad depression and suicidal thoughts.
    YOU might be interested in learning of the work of Dr. Ann Blake-Tracy who is the leading expert in the country on the negative side effects of SSRI, SNRI, and anti-anxiety drugs. Her website contains excellent information, testimonials, etc., that might be of interest and benefit to you. Also, there is a database of cases, mostly criminal in nature, that gives great information. For all the ones documented with suicide or criminality involved, there are many more (such as what you have experienced) that would fill greater space than these do.

    Healing blessings,

    -et-

    ~~~~~

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    I can tell you first hand how bad some of the side effects of these meds can be. I ended up going to three hospitals in one week and no one could figure out why I look like I was in the final stages of Parkinson. All my test where clear but my whole nervous system was out of whack I could not speak correctly or really walk. Once we figured out that the it was the meds. I had to deal with extreme depression and anxiety that I was being able to maintain relatively well. Pretty much ever since I have had to be on multiply antidepressants at the same time. I did find out that I can not take SSRIs really or I get pretty bad depression and suicidal thoughts.
    I'm so sorry to hear about this Steven. Paul experienced depersonalization where he lost all his emotions, love, joy, happiness, sadness...he had none and felt like a blank slate...like he was watching a movie of his life but he wasn't in it. This lasted for about four months. He also had severe anxiety that was more pervasive and has taken much longer to get better. They put him on Wellbutrin which actually made it worse. He gradually started improving after he stopped taking it. After two years his doctor put him on four supplements because the neurologist was concerned about prescription drugs making it worse. They were gradually introduced and helped some. After 2 3/4 years they took a chance and added Buspar ( a few months ago) which been absolutely wonderful. He is finally feeling like his old self. He has also learned that it is absolutely essential to stay hydrated as dehydration causes a drag on the brain. He also learned a breathing technique that helps the chemistry of the brain...several a times a day he does an exercise where he breathes in for 7 seconds, holds it and then exhales for 11 seconds. He does this for five minutes. We are praying for you and this Hellish path you are walking. Our hearts go out to you. We will keep you in our prayers and if you ever needs some moral support please know we are here and know how difficult this path is.

    Cynthia
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    There should be stronger warnings about neurological and CNS side effects of quinolones. My guess is most people have no idea what they are experiencing is related to this drug. I know a pastor's wife who had severe, disturbing, hallucinations. Our internist was not really familiar with these side effects, but praise God we were in Houston and we were able to use Paul's neurologist (who is a neurologist for the Houston Rockets) from 1997. He is also my mom's neurologist and asks about Paul every time she sees him...he has never forgotten treating Paul's rare form of encephalemenengitis back in 97. We called him and they said to go straight to Methodist hospital. He wasn't supposed to be making rounds but came in just to see Paul. I will never forget the look on his face when I asked him how long it would take for Paul to get better.

    He paused, took a deep breath and said, " A very... long... time." He then told us that the one thing he was thankful for was that Paul did not go into seizures as most of the patients he has seen have done.
    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 27th, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    There should be stronger warnings about neurological and CNS side effects of quinolones. My guess is most people have no idea what they are experiencing is related to this drug. I know a pastor's wife who had severe, disturbing, hallucinations. Our internist was not really familiar with these side effects, but praise God we were in Houston and we were able to use Paul's neurologist (who is a neurologist for the Houston Rockets) from 1997. He is also my mom's neurologist and asks about Paul every time she sees him...he has never forgotten treating Paul's extremely rare form of encephalemenengitis back in 97. We called him and they said to go straight to Methodist hospital. He wasn't supposed to be making rounds but came in just to see Paul. I will never forget the look on his face when I asked him how long it would take for Paul to get better.

    He paused, took a deep breath and said, " A very... long... time." He then told us that the one thing he was thankful for was that Paul did not go into seizures as most of the patients he has seen have done.
    Wow....

    And I agree about the warnings. Not just with these medications but with so many more. Ex. My father was prescribed something once that caused many problems for him by a clueless neurologist. Turns out, the medication is one that should NEVER be given to an older person because the older body can't metabolize it. Ever since, my mother will go to all his appts and be the grand inquisitor and then afterwards, will run any new meds by me so that I can look up all side effects.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    I'm so sorry to hear about this Steven. Paul experienced depersonalization where he lost all his emotions, love, joy, happiness, sadness...he had none and felt like a blank slate...like he was watching a movie of his life but he wasn't in it. This lasted for about four months. He also had severe anxiety that was more pervasive and has taken much longer to get better. They put him on Wellbutrin which actually made it worse. He gradually started improving after he stopped taking it. After two years his doctor put him on four supplements because the neurologist was concerned about prescription drugs making it worse. They were gradually introduced and helped some. After 2 3/4 years they took a chance and added Buspar ( a few months ago) which been absolutely wonderful. He is finally feeling like his old self. He has also learned that it is absolutely essential to stay hydrated as dehydration causes a drag on the brain. He also learned a breathing technique that helps the chemistry of the brain...several a times a day he does an exercise where he breathes in for 7 seconds, holds it and then exhales for 11 seconds. He does this for five minutes. We are praying for you and this Hellish path you are walking. Our hearts go out to you. We will keep you in our prayers and if you ever needs some moral support please know we are here and know how difficult this path is.

    Cynthia
    You should have him look into Tia Chi. It is very beneficial with breathing technics that help calm your body down. I am one of the luckier ones because when I have the money to get on certain meds my anxiety and depression pretty much just fade away. I will say last month was the worst month I have ever had. I had a panic attack almost everyday. Even the Klonapin I was on didn't really make much of a difference. But most of my problems seem to be mood changes so I have to be on a mood stabilizer. I can tell when I am not on one because my mood will change as much as 10 times during the day. It can drive me nuts and create anxiety.

    Also what is the sodium intake on this diet?
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

  17. #17
    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    You should have him look into Tia Chi. It is very beneficial with breathing technics that help calm your body down. I am one of the luckier ones because when I have the money to get on certain meds my anxiety and depression pretty much just fade away. I will say last month was the worst month I have ever had. I had a panic attack almost everyday. Even the Klonapin I was on didn't really make much of a difference. But most of my problems seem to be mood changes so I have to be on a mood stabilizer. I can tell when I am not on one because my mood will change as much as 10 times during the day. It can drive me nuts and create anxiety.

    Also what is the sodium intake on this diet?
    Thanks for the suggestion...and we will keep praying for you. We are three years into it and life is so much better... but it has been a long three years. As to the sodium...because a very low carb diet acts as a natural diuretic the amount of sodium is not a problem...you actually have to make sure you eat enough salt (also supplement with potassium, magnesium, and calcium). It is a pretty amazing thing. You guys are in the DFW area ??? If you are we should get together sometime. Paul does not have high blood pressure but it has been borderline high...since he has been on this diet his blood pressure numbers have been fantastic.
    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 28th, 2012 at 11:11 AM.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion...and we will keep praying for you. We are three years into it and life is so much better... but it has been a long three years. As to the sodium...because a very low carb diet acts as a natural diuretic the amount of sodium is not a problem...you actually have to make sure you eat enough salt (also supplement with potassium, magnesium, and calcium). It is a pretty amazing thing. You guys are in the DFW area ??? If you are we should get together sometime. Paul does not have high blood pressure but it has been borderline high...since he has been on this diet his blood pressure numbers have been fantastic.
    That is good know since I have had blood pressure problems in the past and I am getting on Effexor Xr which can raise blood pressure. I will have to read up on your articles to see if I can do some of the diet with the current income Charlotte is making. I have been waiting to get on something that will lower my sodium intake.

    Yeah we are over in McKinney at the moment.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    That is good know since I have had blood pressure problems in the past and I am getting on Effexor Xr which can raise blood pressure. I will have to read up on your articles to see if I can do some of the diet with the current income Charlotte is making. I have been waiting to get on something that will lower my sodium intake.

    Yeah we are over in McKinney at the moment.
    It would be great to get together with a couple that has gone through something similar. How long ago did you take the quinolone?
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Paul told me that as of this morning I needed to update his weight loss to 17 pounds....so noted. That makes a total of 82 pounds lost for our family of three.
    Fast food dinner last night...

    For Jonathan - three $1 McDonald's doubles, minus the buns (that is 6 small patties and 6 small slices of cheese), and a $1 Caesar side salad with all the dressing. A couple of Russel Stover's sugar-free chocolate truffles.
    For Paul - Three soft tacos from taco bell. He discarded the tortillas and put the contents into two small low carb tortillas and added extra shredded cheese and picante. A couple of Russel Stover's sugar-free pecan turtles.
    For Cynthia - Three soft tacos from taco bell. I discarded the tortillas and ate the contents piled up like a taco salad. One piece of Russel Stover's chocolate covered coconut candy.
    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 29th, 2012 at 05:21 PM.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    It would be great to get together with a couple that has gone through something similar. How long ago did you take the quinolone?
    It was June 2009 the week Charlotte and I got back from our honeymoon. That was really fun week for both of us. I got lucky and Mom had a friend who is a nurse in Oklahoma and has some pretty good connections. So the third hospital we where able to actually get a neurologist to check me. My nervous system and brain was pretty much fine. But it left me with worst depression and developing anxiety. Which might have happened later in life anyways. I found a good psychologist so I was able to get it pretty much under control by June 2010. But due to loss of insurance and hard finding a job I was pretty much forced of all my meds but one around December 2011. It took a while for all the anxiety and depression to develop again. Which seems to have come full force around the end of July this year. August was pretty much an anxiety frenzy for me. With about one panic attack a day.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
    Thanks Susan Unger, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    It was June 2009 the week Charlotte and I got back from our honeymoon. That was really fun week for both of us. I got lucky and Mom had a friend who is a nurse in Oklahoma and has some pretty good connections. So the third hospital we where able to actually get a neurologist to check me. My nervous system and brain was pretty much fine. But it left me with worst depression and developing anxiety. Which might have happened later in life anyways. I found a good psychologist so I was able to get it pretty much under control by June 2010. But due to loss of insurance and hard finding a job I was pretty much forced of all my meds but one around December 2011. It took a while for all the anxiety and depression to develop again. Which seems to have come full force around the end of July this year. August was pretty much an anxiety frenzy for me. With about one panic attack a day.
    Wow...your timing is so close to Paul's. His was the early fall of 2009. My heart goes out to you guys getting hit with this right after getting married. It was a challenge for us having been married 24 years...it felt like we were robbed. People don't realize how wonderful our brains work until they don't work correctly. Paul's neurologist says that the brain is "plastic" and will continue to improve...the goal being to find the right combination of things that help each individual. We for sure will be keeping you guys in our prayers.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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  23. #23
    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    It was June 2009 the week Charlotte and I got back from our honeymoon. That was really fun week for both of us. I got lucky and Mom had a friend who is a nurse in Oklahoma and has some pretty good connections. So the third hospital we where able to actually get a neurologist to check me. My nervous system and brain was pretty much fine. But it left me with worst depression and developing anxiety. Which might have happened later in life anyways. I found a good psychologist so I was able to get it pretty much under control by June 2010. But due to loss of insurance and hard finding a job I was pretty much forced of all my meds but one around December 2011. It took a while for all the anxiety and depression to develop again. Which seems to have come full force around the end of July this year. August was pretty much an anxiety frenzy for me. With about one panic attack a day.
    I have a greater understanding of your struggles now. That is a hard blow, especially so soon after your wedding. Will pray for you.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


    Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
    Thanks Steven Burton, Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

  24. #24
    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Some have asked about the science behind a higher fat diet. The best introduction I can recommend for the lay person is the following lecture. It traces the history of our modern day lipid hypothesis. You can watch it free on youtube.








    Last edited by Cynthia Prentice; September 29th, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Do you know if they have done studies on people who have trouble digesting fat properly. I know I have been tested and product an extra enzyme from my liver and have been told that it can cause me not to digest fat properly. So I am curious if you have seen any studies that deal with this?
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

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    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    Wow...your timing is so close to Paul's. His was the early fall of 2009. My heart goes out to you guys getting hit with this right after getting married. It was a challenge for us having been married 24 years...it felt like we were robbed. People don't realize how wonderful our brains work until they don't work correctly. Paul's neurologist says that the brain is "plastic" and will continue to improve...the goal being to find the right combination of things that help each individual. We for sure will be keeping you guys in our prayers.
    Yeah I feel sometimes as if those times where were suppose to be bonding and growing together closer right after marriage basically didn't happen. Yeah the past three years have not been the fun time Charlotte and I heard about from all the other married couples. Not to mention the drop in libido due to antidepressants.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    Yeah I feel sometimes as if those times where were suppose to be bonding and growing together closer right after marriage basically didn't happen. Yeah the past three years have not been the fun time Charlotte and I heard about from all the other married couples. Not to mention the drop in libido due to antidepressants.
    There are many times I wish we had a "praying" button on the General discussion thread. Know we are praying for you guys.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN6qvJe4eU new for 2013
    Thanks Susan Unger, Steven Burton - "thanks" for this post

  28. #28
    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    Yeah I feel sometimes as if those times where were suppose to be bonding and growing together closer right after marriage basically didn't happen. Yeah the past three years have not been the fun time Charlotte and I heard about from all the other married couples. Not to mention the drop in libido due to antidepressants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia Prentice View Post
    There are many times I wish we had a "praying" button on the General discussion thread. Know we are praying for you guys.
    Yes, my heart goes out to you two. I am praying for you both.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


    Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Interesting!

    At my physical a few years ago I was told I had to increase my fat in my diet to PREVENT heart disease. My cholesterol was way too low.

    I've made a few modest changes and my labs last report were wonderful, and my dr was very pleased.

    And yes, food tastes good again and I just flat out feel better. Depression and insomnia vanished, hot flashes greatly reduced, and FAR FEWER INFECTIONS.
    Thanks Susan Unger, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

  30. #30
    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Smith View Post
    Interesting!

    At my physical a few years ago I was told I had to increase my fat in my diet to PREVENT heart disease. My cholesterol was way too low.

    I've made a few modest changes and my labs last report were wonderful, and my dr was very pleased.

    And yes, food tastes good again and I just flat out feel better. Depression and insomnia vanished, hot flashes greatly reduced, and FAR FEWER INFECTIONS.
    Its amazing what happens when your body gets all the nutrient you need. Not to mention an increase in proper fats can decrease your body mass index in terms of fat stored.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."
    Thanks Susan Unger, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

  31. #31
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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    THIS is an excellent article on the Fluoroquinolone class of drugs that is well worth the few minutes spent to read it. An excerpt from the article follows:

    Learn More about the Dangers of Fluoroquinolone Antibiotics

    Shockingly, despite all these risks, fluoroquinolones are one of the most commonly prescribed classes of antibiotics in the world. John Fratti, who was hired by the FDA in a part-time position as an FDA Patient Representative for drug safety, is on a quest to raise awareness on the dangers of fluoroguinolone toxicity. He filed a Freedom of Information (FOI) request with the FDA on two of the top fluoroquinolones, Levaquin and Cipro, and learned that they are associated with over 2,500 deaths.

    Fratti has established a non-profit organization called Quinolone Vigilance Foundation to spread awareness of the dangers associated with this class of drugs, and the Foundation's website contains both information and support for those injured by these drugs. Fortunately, fluoroquinolones have started getting some well-deserved media attention as of late.


    -et-
    ~~~~
    Thanks Betty Bolerjack, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

  32. #32
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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Interesting too about the class of antibiotics. I was given one of them for a sinus infection once, and my body broke out in severe hives, entirely.

    They tell me also that unless I die without that class of antibiotics, never to take another one.

    It was shortly after that I started the insomnia issues.
    Thanks Susan Unger - "thanks" for this post

  33. #33
    Senior Member Benjamin Burch's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Well, Cynthia, you've won me over. I've switched my diet around and it is currently at around 40% Fat, 45% Protein, and 15% Carbs. All of my carbs come in the form of orange juice in my pre and post workout shakes to fuel my workouts and keep my metabolism high until my next workout.

    I also decided that since I cannot find anything else that makes my protein shakes enjoyable other than OJ and berries, I'd work around it.

    I'm currently eating about 3500 calories a day so that comes out to about 100 carbs usually.

    Yesterday I consumed 2700calories which consisted of 162g Fat --- 103g Carbs --- 215g Protein. That was missing a meal which is usually chicken breast and eggs and some spinach.

    I've been doing it for almost two weeks now and I can attest that I feel more energy overall and less peaks and valleys in my energy, with less "crashes" after mid-day meals.
    - Ben

    Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
    Thanks Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

  34. #34
    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Burch View Post
    Well, Cynthia, you've won me over. I've switched my diet around and it is currently at around 40% Fat, 45% Protein, and 15% Carbs. All of my carbs come in the form of orange juice in my pre and post workout shakes to fuel my workouts and keep my metabolism high until my next workout.

    I also decided that since I cannot find anything else that makes my protein shakes enjoyable other than OJ and berries, I'd work around it.

    I'm currently eating about 3500 calories a day so that comes out to about 100 carbs usually.

    Yesterday I consumed 2700calories which consisted of 162g Fat --- 103g Carbs --- 215g Protein. That was missing a meal which is usually chicken breast and eggs and some spinach.

    I've been doing it for almost two weeks now and I can attest that I feel more energy overall and less peaks and valleys in my energy, with less "crashes" after mid-day meals.
    That is great! Keep me posted on how things go for you. I think the biggest thing for all of us has been the thing you mentioned...the overall more energy and the leveling out of the up and down.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN6qvJe4eU new for 2013

  35. #35
    Senior Member Benjamin Burch's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Burch View Post
    Well, Cynthia, you've won me over. I've switched my diet around and it is currently at around 40% Fat, 45% Protein, and 15% Carbs. All of my carbs come in the form of orange juice in my pre and post workout shakes to fuel my workouts and keep my metabolism high until my next workout.

    I also decided that since I cannot find anything else that makes my protein shakes enjoyable other than OJ and berries, I'd work around it.

    I'm currently eating about 3500 calories a day so that comes out to about 100 carbs usually.

    Yesterday I consumed 2700calories which consisted of 162g Fat --- 103g Carbs --- 215g Protein. That was missing a meal which is usually chicken breast and eggs and some spinach.

    I've been doing it for almost two weeks now and I can attest that I feel more energy overall and less peaks and valleys in my energy, with less "crashes" after mid-day meals.
    A couple of performance-based observations:

    Lifting:

    My endurance in the gym is much better than it used to be and strength progression seems to be at least the same. I feel stronger in the gym and have more motivation to go. Some of this may be due to some increases in protein supplement intake as well as adding some amino acids to my pre-workout diet.

    More time will tell. So far, so good, and certainly no set-backs.

    Running:

    I just did a fasted 4-mile run. I have to say, my world is forever changed. My performance today on a fasted run was worlds better than it was 3 weeks ago on a carbed run. 2.5 weeks or so and I can tell you this (all times for 3 weeks ago are consistent over multiple runs).

    Muscle fatigue set-in:

    3 weeks ago, carbed:1 mile
    Today, fasted: 2.5 miles

    Respiratory fatigue set-in:

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 1.2 miles
    Today, fasted: 3.0 miles

    Extreme muscle fatigue set-in (start walking):

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 1.5 miles
    Today, fasted: 3.7 miles

    Mile average over 4 miles:

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 8:50
    Today, fasted: 8:57

    WOW. Huge improvements. My body functioned better and more efficiently while completing the same exact task.

    Obviously, I'll need more to see if this was just a fluke run, but I couldn't be happier right now.

    Two big observations of import which can't be shown with raw numbers:

    (1) There is a very steep incline about 3.5 miles that I've never run up. It is too much, too steep, too late. I always walk it. I ran it today.

    (2) I have a stopping point at about 2-2.15 miles (depending on where I start), at which point I rest for a minute, turn around, and run back. I've never made it there without walking at some point. Today, I did, and it was 2.17 miles. So I started farther away and made it all the way there better than I have before.

    Thank you Cynthia, for sharing this. I'm glad I took the time to take this seriously, read it, pay attention, and consider trying it. So far, so good.

    I fully expect that, after a week, when I begin to add a low-carb, high protein, high fat snack pre-run, I will see some much more significant gains.
    - Ben

    Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
    Thanks Betty Bolerjack, Cynthia Prentice - "thanks" for this post

  36. #36
    Senior Member Cynthia Prentice's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Burch View Post
    A couple of performance-based observations:

    Lifting:

    My endurance in the gym is much better than it used to be and strength progression seems to be at least the same. I feel stronger in the gym and have more motivation to go. Some of this may be due to some increases in protein supplement intake as well as adding some amino acids to my pre-workout diet.

    More time will tell. So far, so good, and certainly no set-backs.

    Running:

    I just did a fasted 4-mile run. I have to say, my world is forever changed. My performance today on a fasted run was worlds better than it was 3 weeks ago on a carbed run. 2.5 weeks or so and I can tell you this (all times for 3 weeks ago are consistent over multiple runs).

    Muscle fatigue set-in:

    3 weeks ago, carbed:1 mile
    Today, fasted: 2.5 miles

    Respiratory fatigue set-in:

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 1.2 miles
    Today, fasted: 3.0 miles

    Extreme muscle fatigue set-in (start walking):

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 1.5 miles
    Today, fasted: 3.7 miles

    Mile average over 4 miles:

    3 weeks ago, carbed: 8:50
    Today, fasted: 8:57

    WOW. Huge improvements. My body functioned better and more efficiently while completing the same exact task.

    Obviously, I'll need more to see if this was just a fluke run, but I couldn't be happier right now.

    Two big observations of import which can't be shown with raw numbers:

    (1) There is a very steep incline about 3.5 miles that I've never run up. It is too much, too steep, too late. I always walk it. I ran it today.

    (2) I have a stopping point at about 2-2.15 miles (depending on where I start), at which point I rest for a minute, turn around, and run back. I've never made it there without walking at some point. Today, I did, and it was 2.17 miles. So I started farther away and made it all the way there better than I have before.

    Thank you Cynthia, for sharing this. I'm glad I took the time to take this seriously, read it, pay attention, and consider trying it. So far, so good.

    I fully expect that, after a week, when I begin to add a low-carb, high protein, high fat snack pre-run, I will see some much more significant gains.
    Wow...those results are great. I read your post to Paul and Jonathan and they are really impressed with what a difference there is. I'm so glad you were able to work your way through all the information and that it is going well for you. It is hard to explain to people about this diet change because it is so different from what we hear all the time that it just sounds a little nutty/quacky. I just want to get the information out there so that people can examine it and ponder it and maybe have the opportunity to feel better. Thanks so much for sharing.
    "I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places...You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew... You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again." Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN6qvJe4eU new for 2013
    Thanks Betty Bolerjack, Benjamin Burch, Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

  37. #37
    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Burch View Post
    I fully expect that, after a week, when I begin to add a low-carb, high protein, high fat snack pre-run, I will see some much more significant gains.
    I know that when I have a high protein meal before I do the weight machines I feel very energetic and like I can take on the world. People wonder how it is that I can do the elliptical as long as I do [at least an hour if not more]. I feel high protein diet is part of the reason why. I just have so much energy.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


    Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
    Thanks Betty Bolerjack - "thanks" for this post

  38. #38
    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Unger View Post
    I know that when I have a high protein meal before I do the weight machines I feel very energetic and like I can take on the world. People wonder how it is that I can do the elliptical as long as I do [at least an hour if not more]. I feel high protein diet is part of the reason why. I just have so much energy.
    Just make sure you are drinking enough water with your high protein diet. Sometimes the kidneys can have a little trouble if you are not getting enough water due to the extra protein that it was not getting before.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

  39. #39
    Senior Member Steven Burton's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Edith Thurmond View Post
    YOU might be interested in learning of the work of Dr. Ann Blake-Tracy who is the leading expert in the country on the negative side effects of SSRI, SNRI, and anti-anxiety drugs. Her website contains excellent information, testimonials, etc., that might be of interest and benefit to you. Also, there is a database of cases, mostly criminal in nature, that gives great information. For all the ones documented with suicide or criminality involved, there are many more (such as what you have experienced) that would fill greater space than these do.

    Healing blessings,

    -et-

    ~~~~~
    Yeah I pretty much knew about the risks involved when I got on them. The biggest problem I had with the article though is that they don't mention how much science has been done since the 50's to lead to more cases of bi-polar and depression being assigned. Just opening the DMS IV is pretty eye opening. There are many reasons that can cause these behaviors. And almost all the effects they describe could also be cause by their depression or mania due to their disorder. I know if I had not gotten on antidepressants in high school I would have committed suicide. The only thing that did stop me was Zoloft. So I am curious about how many lives they do save as well. And the thing with Prozac is that is was very revolutionary. It gave someone like me the chance to live a close to normal life with out having to to be institutionalize. Which if this was 30 years ago I would have been institutionalized. And I am actually on a bi-polar meds and can tell you when I am off the meds I have crazy aggression and anger due to mania phases.
    "Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

  40. #40
    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Our high-fat diet - first lab results in

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Burton View Post
    Just make sure you are drinking enough water with your high protein diet. Sometimes the kidneys can have a little trouble if you are not getting enough water due to the extra protein that it was not getting before.
    Thanks for the important info. No worries with me - I try to drink 3 quarts of water a day to prevent migraines.

    And....yahooo for me!!!! Post #6000!!!!!
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


    Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
    Thanks Steven Burton - "thanks" for this post

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