Most Offensive Lyric in a Traditional Hymn?

[Pete Vecchi]

I'm taking off from this thread started by Bill Morrison: http://www.naznet.com/community/show...-Praise-Chorus

Let's turn back the clock to some of the "great hymns of the faith" and some of the lines that bother us.

I'll start.

The line in "He Abides" that says, "There's no thirsting for the things of the world, they've taken wings; long ago I gave them up and instantly..."

Hmmm. Not my experience. While I cannot argue with some who have indeed experienced immediate deliverance from any and all worldy things in one moment (and while that experience was encouraged and preached about in the time when that song was written), I have found that by and large the total giving up of any desire for anything within the world generally happens not at the moment of entire sanctification, but through the process of spiritually maturing.

The second is any hymn that includes the line "Jesus is mine."

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way; I am His!

[Ryan Scott]

"Plunged beneath the blood..." comes to mind.

[Mike Schutz]

We don't sing the second verse of "Trust and Obey" -

"Not a shadow can rise, Not a cloud in the skies, But His smile quickly drives it away."

Not necessarily offensive, but a bit too sentimental for my taste.

[Bill Morrison]

Even as a boy I was offended by: "We'll Girdle the Globe with Salvation" (page 304 of Praise and Worship hymnal.)
Tough enough for a young guy to keep his mind off sex......the hymnal doesn't need to be helping you to think about women's lingerie.
The rest of the chorus almost made up for it though: "with holiness unto the Lord; And light shall illumine each nation, The light from the lamp of His Word".
I sang lustily (you can take that however you wish) and was always ready, eager. and willing for God to send me as a missionary to some place like Africa or New Guinea, but for some reason He never wanted to do that and I ended up at MNU in Olathe instead.

BILL

[Bill Morrison]

Don't remember the title of the hymn, but even for an Ohio white boy this line seemed politically incorrect back in the 1950"s: "Dusky hands stretched out for aid"

BILL

[Gina Stevenson]

We don't sing the second verse of "Trust and Obey" -

"Not a shadow can rise, Not a cloud in the skies, But His smile quickly drives it away."

Not necessarily offensive, but a bit too sentimental for my taste.

Quickly? Sometimes those clouds hang around for a good long time before they finally lift ... maybe not sentimental, but maybe a bit too Polly-Ann-ish?

[Susan Unger]

My childhood pastor's wife didn't like and preached against "He never has failed me yet." She thought "yet" opened the door to believing that God couldn't be trusted to take care of us.

For me, How the Fire Fell was just too abstract when I was younger. Now, I get it and can find some enjoyment in it [catchy little tune] but it still has bad vibes for me because I remember how frustrated I was over it.

[Jim Franklin]

In "America, the Beautiful? is a line I can not sing, and that is, "thine alabaster cities undimmed by human tears," because I know there are alot of slum areas and burbs where there are alot of tears.

[Andy Mistak]

Don't remember the title of the hymn, but even for an Ohio white boy this line seemed politically incorrect back in the 1950"s: "Dusky hands stretched out for aid"

BILL

Yeah, that one is a little rough...

[Andy Mistak]

In "America, the Beautiful? is a line I can not sing, and that is, "thine alabaster cities undimmed by human tears," because I know there are alot of slum areas and burbs where there are alot of tears.

Jim, I'm ashamed to say that my bleeding liberal heart never noticed that one. You're putting me to shame, man!

[Pete Vecchi]

Just thought of another one: At the Cross:

"..it was there by faith I received my sight and now I am happy all the day."

As I used to hear quite a bit a couple of decades ago, "The only people who wake up smiling everyday are the ones who go to bed with a coat hanger in their mouths."

[Marsha Lynn]

"Victory! victory! Blessed, blood-bought victory!
Victory! victory! Vict’ry all the time!
As Jehovah liveth, strength divine He giveth
Unto those who know Him—vict’ry all the time!"

[Marsha Lynn]

We don't sing the second verse of "Trust and Obey" -

"Not a shadow can rise, Not a cloud in the skies, But His smile quickly drives it away."

Not necessarily offensive, but a bit too sentimental for my taste.

And here I thought I was passing up perfectly good lyrics in rejecting that song on the basis of it's draggy, old-fashioned, 3/4 time music.

Y'all are fortunate that this medium filters out the part where I sing a mocking version of this venerable tune.

Marsha

[Billy Cox]

...was always ready, eager. and willing for God to send me as a missionary to some place like Africa or New Guinea, but for some reason He never wanted to do that and I ended up at MNU in Olathe instead.

Kind of like being willing to go to Nineveh, but ending up in Tarshish instead?

[Wes Smith]

I'd stay in the garden with Him, though the night around me is falling.

But he bids me go with a voice of woe

Friend,

Wes

[Marsha Lynn]

My childhood pastor's wife didn't like and preached against "He never has failed me yet." She thought "yet" opened the door to believing that God couldn't be trusted to take care of us.

I've heard the rants against the "yet." It must have been spread around by some evangelist of something.

Personally, I like it.

Q. Can you trust Jesus?

A. Well, he hasn't failed me yet! I think I can!

For me, How the Fire Fell was just too abstract when I was younger. Now, I get it and can find some enjoyment in it [catchy little tune] but it still has bad vibes for me because I remember how frustrated I was over it.

It was a good day for me when I finally gave up waiting for the fire to fall. That's a song that makes me want to jump up and run screaming out of the place. (Maybe people would think it finally happened for me!) Fortunately, I haven't heard it in a long time.

[Billy Cox]

And here I thought I was passing up perfectly good lyrics in rejecting that song on the basis of it's draggy, old-fashioned, 3/4 time music.

Marsha, I think I've figured this one out. Many of those draggy 3/4 songs are sung as though they are German Polka when they are often Celtic tunes.

Think of 'Be Thou My Vision' for instance. If it is sung slow, with equal accent on each beat, it really feels like something that would be sung by Imperial Stormtroopers working long hours on the Death Star. Take the song a bit faster with emphasis on the first beat and it flows... It's like it was written for a Hobbit birthday party.

[Billy Cox]

I've heard the rants against the "yet." It must have been spread around by some evangelist of something.

Personally, I like it.

Q. Can you trust Jesus?

A. Well, he hasn't failed me yet! I think I can!



It was a good day for me when I finally gave up waiting for the fire to fall. That's a song that makes me want to jump up and run screaming out of the place. (Maybe people would think it finally happened for me!) Fortunately, I haven't heard it in a long time.

The meter puts the emphasis on 'Never', 'Failed' and 'Yet'. It's poor songwriting, plain and simple.

[Dennis M. Scott]

I am so glad somebody changed "And when hoary hairs shall my temple adorn", to "silver hairs".

Even more so as I age.

[Billy Cox]

I am so glad somebody changed "And when hoary hairs shall my temple adorn", to "silver hairs".

Even more so as I age.

"Here I raise my Ebenezer" I want to say, "put that thing away!!"

[Marsha Lynn]

I am so glad somebody changed "And when hoary hairs shall my temple adorn", to "silver hairs".

Even more so as I age.

LOL. I didn't know about that one. "How Firm a Foundation" was too "high church" for the congregation of my youth. I didn't fall in love with it until the "hoary hairs" had receded into the distance.

With six verses, it's a big commitment to sing all of them. Just as we don't sing the seven words of praise choruses eleven times, we also don't spend ten minutes on a slow hymn with a bunch of verses. The first time my daughter led it, she looked at the verse which formerly had the "hoary hairs" and thought it was an obvious candidate for omission. I pointed out that the silver-haired members of the congregation might find real comfort in those lyrics and it was included for that Sunday. But I haven't pushed for it since. As long as we do the first and last verses, I'm fine with whichever others are chosen. It's the "never, no never, no never forsake" that makes my heart soar.

\0/

[Marsha Lynn]

The meter puts the emphasis on 'Never', 'Failed' and 'Yet'. It's poor songwriting, plain and simple.

Oh, well, in spite of revealing a lack of musical discernment by the confession, I still like it. If I divided the hymnal into "songs I hope to never encounter again," "songs I enjoy (for various reasons)," and "songs I don't mind but not my favorites," it would fall into the last category.

We're doing a song from the first list this week -- "Love Lifted Me." I don't know what it is about that song, but it's only because it's a request that I'm not protesting.

[Pete Vecchi]

Christian songwriter Ken Medema did a song about 25 or more years ago that had the following words:

"I'm sick of those 'I am His and He is mine and doesn't He make me feel good' love songs, 'cause I've read the Book before and it doesn't turn out that way. We need some more 'I am His and He is Lord and He calls me to His Service' work songs..."

If it wasn't for the term "work songs", I think that I might really like that.

[Michael Flowers]

Oh, well, in spite of revealing a lack of musical discernment by the confession, I still like it. If I divided the hymnal into "songs I hope to never encounter again," "songs I enjoy (for various reasons)," and "songs I don't mind but not my favorites," it would fall into the last category.

We're doing a song from the first list this week -- "Love Lifted Me." I don't know what it is about that song, but it's only because it's a request that I'm not protesting.

I'm very curious what your problem with "Love Lifted Me" is. I can't think of anything bad about the song, and the message is very clear. Like I said, just curious.

[Susan Unger]

It was a good day for me when I finally gave up waiting for the fire to fall. That's a song that makes me want to jump up and run screaming out of the place. (Maybe people would think it finally happened for me!) Fortunately, I haven't heard it in a long time.

Had a good chuckle over that one.

[Marsha Lynn]

I'm very curious what your problem with "Love Lifted Me" is. I can't think of anything bad about the song, and the message is very clear. Like I said, just curious.

Well, I already admitted I really don't know why I don't like it. It has nothing to do with the "offensive lyric" subject of this thread. The bouncy tune doesn't really inspire thoughtful analysis of the lyrics. They just bounce right past me without notice.

It might have to do with repeating "Love lifted me" six times after every verse for a total of 18 times for three verses, but I'm not sure that completely explains it. Other hymns do a lot of repeating, although I can't think of any with that much repetition on my list of favorites.

Maybe it's the jarring rhythm coming out of the 6/8 time -- I was SINK-ing DEEP in SIN. It's like riding a horse at a trot without knowing how. BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE. Much different than hymns I prefer. For example, "Living by Faith" is a 6/8 song that flows more smoothly -- "I CARE not to-DAY what to-MOR-row may BRING..." The bounces aren't nearly so heavy and don't come on every other syllable.

Then after all that bouncing we come to the last LOOOOOOVE LIFTEDDDDDDD MEEEEEE on every chorus. And I'm on the piano trying to figure out what to do during indefinite holds and how long people expect it to be held and how long the leader is going to actually hold it.

Like I said, I never actually get to the place where the lyrics have any meaning for me. I pretty much lose interest after the first line. I was never that deep into sin anyway. There's not all that much miry clay to sink into before finding Jesus at age 6.

Marsha

[Michael Flowers]

Well, I already admitted I really don't know why I don't like it. It has nothing to do with the "offensive lyric" subject of this thread. The bouncy tune doesn't really inspire thoughtful analysis of the lyrics. They just bounce right past me without notice.

It might have to do with repeating "Love lifted me" six times after every verse for a total of 18 times for three verses, but I'm not sure that completely explains it. Other hymns do a lot of repeating, although I can't think of any with that much repetition on my list of favorites.

Maybe it's the jarring rhythm coming out of the 6/8 time -- I was SINK-ing DEEP in SIN. It's like riding a horse at a trot without knowing how. BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE-a-BOUNCE. Much different than hymns I prefer. For example, "Living by Faith" is a 6/8 song that flows more smoothly -- "I CARE not to-DAY what to-MOR-row may BRING..." The bounces aren't nearly so heavy and don't come on every other syllable.

Then after all that bouncing we come to the last LOOOOOOVE LIFTEDDDDDDD MEEEEEE on every chorus. And I'm on the piano trying to figure out what to do during indefinite holds and how long people expect it to be held and how long the leader is going to actually hold it.

Like I said, I never actually get to the place where the lyrics have any meaning for me. I pretty much lose interest after the first line. I was never that deep into sin anyway. There's not all that much miry clay to sink into before finding Jesus at age 6.

Marsha

Thanks. The description of the music itself I can totally understand and it has bugged me at times in the past (most notably when I have been playing piano for it). If lyrics don't have meaning then the song is pretty much going to be a dud for the person. I appreciate you taking the time to examine and explain it.

[Dana Grant]

Lead on, Oh Kinky turtle.........

Oh, you mean that's not the REAL lyric????




Carry on......

[Gina Stevenson]

Dana, reminds me of "Low in the gravy lay ...." sung around Easter.

ETA: seems we've already had a thread somewhere re our (mis)perceptions of whatever hymn lyrics when we were kids.

[Mike Schutz]

Marsha, I think I've figured this one out. Many of those draggy 3/4 songs are sung as though they are German Polka when they are often Celtic tunes.

Think of 'Be Thou My Vision' for instance. If it is sung slow, with equal accent on each beat, it really feels like something that would be sung by Imperial Stormtroopers working long hours on the Death Star. Take the song a bit faster with emphasis on the first beat and it flows... It's like it was written for a Hobbit birthday party.

YES! Exactly!

[Shea Zellweger]

For me, it's a tie between all the ones in the "patriotic" section.

After that, it would probably be the blood trilogy- There is a Fountain Filled with Blood, there is Power in the Blood, and Sunday Bloody Sunday.

[Jim Chabot]

For me, it's a tie between all the ones in the "patriotic" section.

After that, it would probably be the blood trilogy- There is a Fountain Filled with Blood, there is Power in the Blood, and Sunday Bloody Sunday.

Those dear, dear, thoroughly modern Milly's from Milry have no doubt left an indelible mark on you my friend. I was wondering as I was watching, how long before we get to "bloody Sunday."

[Dale Cozby]

In "America, the Beautiful? is a line I can not sing, and that is, "thine alabaster cities undimmed by human tears," because I know there are alot of slum areas and burbs where there are alot of tears.

I have thought about this too. here is my take on it. It isn't that the tears aren't there, it is that the hope of having prosperity in the American dream is undimmed by the sorrow we go through. It is a line about hope even in the midst of suffering, not that we have no suffering but that we will have beauty and achievment in spite of it. The dream/hope of heavenly cities(in America) is just as bright even when we suffer.

[Dennis M. Scott]

I have thought about this too. here is my take on it. It isn't that the tears aren't there, it is that the hope of having prosperity in the American dream is undimmed by the sorrow we go through. It is a line about hope even in the midst of suffering, not that we have no suffering but that we will have beauty and achievment in spite of it.

I like it. It's a stretch, but I like it.

[Shea Zellweger]

Those dear, dear, thoroughly modern Milly's from Milry have no doubt left an indelible mark on you my friend. I was wondering as I was watching, how long before we get to "bloody Sunday."

I didn't like the blood songs before Alabama. It was just a bit jarring that one sunday when all of our songs were about blood

[George Wallace]

So I am guessing that singing the imprecations contained in the Psalms, would not be too popular among most?

Psalm 3

Rise up therefore, save me, my God<
To thee I make my prayer;
For thou hast broke the cheeks and teeth
Of all that wicked are.

Psalm 137

Yea, bless-ed shall that man be called,
that takes thy little ones,
And dasheth them in pieces small
against the very stones.

* From Sternhold and Hopkins, a good Anglican Psalter

[Hans Deventer]

So I am guessing that singing the imprecations contained in the Psalms, would not be too popular among most?

Psalm 3


Psalm 137


* From Sternhold and Hopkins, a good Anglican Psalter

On the contrary, it is always good to sing Psalms. Much better than faulty theology. I can quite often relate to the feelings of the author of Psalm 137. I might express myself differently, but boy, do I recognize the sentiment.
Or Psalm 88. Good one too.

Or Psalm 139:20-21 - They speak of you with evil intent; your adversaries misuse your name. Do I not hate those who hate you, LORD, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?

[Steven Burton]

Marsha, I think I've figured this one out. Many of those draggy 3/4 songs are sung as though they are German Polka when they are often Celtic tunes.

Think of 'Be Thou My Vision' for instance. If it is sung slow, with equal accent on each beat, it really feels like something that would be sung by Imperial Stormtroopers working long hours on the Death Star. Take the song a bit faster with emphasis on the first beat and it flows... It's like it was written for a Hobbit birthday party.

I would think that the imperial stormtroopers would know how to sing this song given that most of their leadership is British and would have some back ground in Celtic.

[Marsha Lynn]

Marsha, I think I've figured this one out. Many of those draggy 3/4 songs are sung as though they are German Polka when they are often Celtic tunes.

Think of 'Be Thou My Vision' for instance. If it is sung slow, with equal accent on each beat, it really feels like something that would be sung by Imperial Stormtroopers working long hours on the Death Star. Take the song a bit faster with emphasis on the first beat and it flows... It's like it was written for a Hobbit birthday party.

YES! Exactly!

I must be even more musically dense than I suspected if you both clearly see this "truth" that is escaping me. My 20-something daughter/song leader insists that we do "Be Thou My Vision" slowly and smoothly. It was a new song to me when we started doing it and took a while to grow on me, but at this point I appreciate the more mellow feel. "Trust and Obey" is the one we do faster with a strong emphasis on the first beat. Isn't that more the polka feel? Boom-chuck-chuck, boom-chuck-chuck.

OK, I can see that if we sped up even more and let the chuck-chucks fade into the background, it would possibly improve the verses, but the chorus still seems clunky.

Speaking of speeding up the slow songs, we get frequent complaints (from a couple of people) that we sing the old gospel songs too slowly. That's partly because they become tongue twisters at full speed for those who didn't cut their teeth on them. However, I have a note written in the piano hymnal reminding me to introduce "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" at a right smart clip. In my early years if I had been asked for a "prayer chorus," that would have been one of the few obvious choices from the hymnal. Now the young upstarts among us have turned it into one more peppy gospel song. Bart Millard hasn't helped. Although not particularly fast, his toe-tapping Dixie-land rendition has surely caused some grave-spinning.

[Marsha Lynn]

I would think that the imperial stormtroopers would know how to sing this song given that most of their leadership is British and would have some back ground in Celtic.

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