Pregnancy and Pregnancy loss in the pulpit

[Susan Unger]

Thought this article was thought provoking...

Is there room in the pulpit for pregnancy and pregnancy loss?

[Nate Pruitt]

When it comes to rejoicing or grief a church is often one of the last places I would want to be, but that is changing...

My wife and I have had the joy of experiencing 5 pregnancies in our marriage. We have also had the joy of having 3 wonderful kids, but the heartache of two miscarriages. Another couple that we are very close to had a birth when the wife was 20 weeks pregnant. Their beautiful little girl, their first, was alive out of the womb for around 2 hours. They have 2 beautiful kids now. The loss, for both couples, happened while at a different church. There was plenty of "give her some space" and "offer horrible condolences." We had our fill of both. Often I think it's a failure of discipleship. Our congregations are terrible at these things because there is no expectation of them to be good- "it's the pastor's job." That's only partially true. Rejoicing and mourning are to be the work of the congregation.

Also, to dig myself a deeper hole... I don't think the church needs sermons about this- we need discussions. We need to be responsive collectively (following the lead of those who do such things best). We need to live life together in such a way that we aren't failing so miserably in these things. A church could do a world of good by putting together prepared meals, dropping them at the house, and keeping the visits short. This is true in a time of pregnancy or pregnancy loss. Simple gestures of compassion, consideration, and minimal talking may be the best start.

As an aside, should someone ever spew such theological rubbish as, "God just needed another little angel," to my wife I may feel it is my pastoral duty to verify they understand how it feels when we're called upon to turn the other cheek.

[Gina Stevenson]

Nate, think it is not just that a congregation is sometimes awful (collectively) at consoling, but humans in general. Could tell you some rather bizarre stories re once widowed, too . . . . . . . !

We humans, at least in the Western culture, shy away from death & other such uncomfortable things often ... have heard some other cultures may do a bit better than we do here.








(now, back to sleep after an up-too-late night ~~ at home after a dreaded drinking water run while still a bit ill ~~ as I need some more sleep yet)

[Glenn Messer]

One of the best received Wednesday night series I have done in recent times dealt with responding to the crises in other people's lives. Most people who say "dumb" things in response to grief and loss do so because they don't know what to say. The other folk (the offensive ones) need to be kindly told that they are wrong. So much of our wrong thinking in this area rises from the belief that God ordains everything that happens in life .... he doesn't. Bad things happen to good people and when they do they are tragic events. I would encourage pastors to consider dealing with this in an instructive, give and take situation. You will be surprised at the positive response you will get from most of your people. Consider death and dying, extended illnesses, family crisis situations, etc. as areas where people are often at a loss in knowing how and when to respond. They appreciate help in this area.

[Dana Grant]

I knew this woman meant well when we had the following conversation after the loss of our first baby:

woman: Dana, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Me: Thanks, I appreciate that.

woman: Never give up hope, though. My mother had NINE miscarriages before she had me.

Me (shocked look on my face): Well, I can guarantee that I won't be having 9 miscarriages. I could NOT handle that.

woman walked away.



Next conversation (different woman)

(Woman has 7 children. Her 15-year-old daughter, a pretty big-time drug user, was recently discovered to be pregnant -- conversation as follows)

Woman: Dana I'm so sorry you lost your baby. Must be really hard.

Me: Yes, it was. Thank you.

woman: Well, I do have some good news, though!!

ME: Yes? What is that?

woman: Well, *name* is pregnant!! I'm going to be a grandmother!!! Isn't that great?

Me (very awkward look on my face): ........

Me (turned to run and bawl my eyes out in the women's restroom).

I must admit that it was one of those "WHY, GOD?" moments in my life.

End of conversation.

15-year-old went on to have a healthy baby boy.

Still don't get it.

[Dana Grant]

I posted the above to point out that people are not only stupid to women preachers, they're equal opportunity stupid.

I think we could all stand to learn a few things in this arena. Well-meaning or not, some people are just plain ignorant when it comes to what to say to someone who has lost a loved one.

I think probably the worst (and I had too many of those to specify one conversation) is the person who says "well, there must have been something wrong with your baby. You should count your blessings." yes, it's true. They do say that. Sad.

[Gina Stevenson]

Dana, together we could write quite the "What NOT to Say" book(let?) ... knowing that while people definitely are not saying such things to be cruel, it sometimes comes out that way due to extreme ignorance/uneasiness. When someone does not know what to say in a given situation, just put them there ... they'll think of what to say ... probably worse than if they were only contemplating (alone) what exactly to say!

Here, just a couple, tho' there were countless such things: "Gina, how are you doing?" (maybe a couple of months after Danny died) Me: "Not so great ... really depressed at the moment." Her: "Well, I used to get like that when (hubby's name) was out of town a few days for work. I just wanted to lay around, do nothing." (Me: "Uh-huh," or just waiting for what the next words would be)

"Well, I learned that I was depressed while (so-&-so) was gone because I was relying too much on him, instead of God. When I learned to rely more on God instead of so-&-so, I got over my depression. So, you need to learn to rely more on God!"

JAW-DROPPING SHOCK (tho't I was beyond shock anymore) . . . thinking: "Excuse ME!? My husband ISN'T gone 'for a few days' ... he's GONE! PERIOD!"

What a lousy comparison that was ... but she was "trying to help." (Ugh! Help I could have done without, but we're FB friends, anyway, as I know she was only very ignorant, at least at that time.)
~~~~~~~~~~

Then the 70-something widow. "How long were you & Danny married?" Me: "Four-&-a-half years."
Her: "Oooh! Is THAT all? We were married 40-whatever years when MY husband died!"

Again, I could only shake my head ... (thinking, not speaking) Is that supposed to make it hurt any less, LADY!? For every memory you have that I don't, I have crushed dreams that you got to LIVE first before he was gone!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll quit here, before I get going, and get myself all het up over it all ... remembering it is only very sad ignorance, not intentional cruelty.

[Greg Farra]

Well, it could be said that Job's friends did the right thing until they opened their mouths. Something to learn from.

[Gina Stevenson]

After losing someone I cared for dearly, instantly in an accident (was with him) with no "goodbye" time, when I was nearing 21, years later (30's) had a friend whose husband died of cancer ... which is a long, drawn-out agonizing time of saying "goodbye," not nice, either.

Anyway, one day we got to talking about the two of them (her husband, my friend who I'd tho't might someday be that, too), and here's my boo-boo that came to mind how-many years later, in fact, right after Danny died. So, when I called back to MI to tell her, I mentioned that I remembered saying that after all the inbetween years:

"Well, at least you had a chance to say 'Goodbye,' something I didn't get to do."

Learned (years later, after having now experienced it both ways ~~ instant and drawn-out) that, either way, "Goodbye" waaay too soon is very unpleasant, heart-wrenching, and there's nothing nice about either way. But take heart ... some of these people will eventually realize the awful things they said, if they have not already ... maybe even most/all of them, even if they never try to correct it (again, "not knowing what to say/how to say it").

[Susan Unger]

"Well, I learned that I was depressed while (so-&-so) was gone because I was relying too much on him, instead of God. When I learned to rely more on God instead of so-&-so, I got over my depression. So, you need to learn to rely more on God!"

My jaw dropped too over this. And this is one that I have actually heard before. Words fail me for the rest of what I want to say.

[Susan Unger]

Well, it could be said that Job's friends did the right thing until they opened their mouths. Something to learn from.

that was the best thing they did.

[Nate Pruitt]

Well, it could be said that Job's friends did the right thing until they opened their mouths. Something to learn from.

Underestimating the power of presence is a major mistake in dealing with the grief of others. Being there can mean much more than filling the void with words. The closest I ever got to one of my teens was in the time after his dad's funeral. What did we do at the funeral? Well, I sat beside him quietly for the most part, but he was also free to talk to me about ANYTHING he chose because everyone else was focused entirely on speaking about his father. He was overloaded! He didn't need another person sitting next to him talking about his dad.

I offered the same thing for his mother last year when we were doing the funeral for the young man after he lost his life due to a drug overdose. Other than being asked to speak at the funeral I was simply there to stand beside her, to listen to her no matter what she wanted to talk about and to offer genuine hugs when I saw her at church- especially each time we approached a holiday, he son's birthday, or the recent anniversary of his death. At no point has there been a need for me to say, "This big hug is because your son is dead and I love you." That would be asinine.

The other thing about grief is the notion that people need to "get over it." Grief can be debilitating when it is stifled for the purpose of "moving on." As this thread began we were talking about pregnancy loss- in the first comment I made in response I addressed a family losing their firstborn within a couple hours as she was incredibly premature. As it turns out they are still grieving. Death was never intended by God in the creation of the world- God is a God of unity, not division, and death divides! The loss of unity creates a natural chasm in our souls! To ignore the grief or suppress it is so dangerous- and telling someone else to do so is anti-ministry. Learning how to live with grief is critical, and a continual process. When that is sought I would hope all of us have learned some ways to help.

[Susan Unger]

As it turns out they are still grieving...The loss of unity creates a natural chasm in our souls!

This has been an interesting thing to discover especially since the death of my beloved aunt 6 years ago. My grief was terrible over a year after her death, as was my uncle's and one of my cousins. I found an article from Newsweek entitled "The Grieving Brain". It explained that there was a chemical change and some other stuff going on that changed the brain. When I realized that, I really had to up my prayers for God to heal me. As much as I loved my aunt, I loved health and healing even more.

I liked your explanation about death leaving a chasm in our souls. That is how I felt about my aunt. What finally brought sufficient healing for me was when someone who strongly reminded me of my aunt came into my life. Regarding her death leaving a chasm in the extended family, that is a harder one to deal with. When another aunt had a stroke we all kind of went to pieces.

[Billy Cox]

When it comes to rejoicing or grief a church is often one of the last places I would want to be, but that is changing...

My wife and I have had the joy of experiencing 5 pregnancies in our marriage. We have also had the joy of having 3 wonderful kids, but the heartache of two miscarriages. Another couple that we are very close to had a birth when the wife was 20 weeks pregnant. Their beautiful little girl, their first, was alive out of the womb for around 2 hours. They have 2 beautiful kids now. The loss, for both couples, happened while at a different church. There was plenty of "give her some space" and "offer horrible condolences." We had our fill of both. Often I think it's a failure of discipleship. Our congregations are terrible at these things because there is no expectation of them to be good- "it's the pastor's job." That's only partially true. Rejoicing and mourning are to be the work of the congregation.

Also, to dig myself a deeper hole... I don't think the church needs sermons about this- we need discussions. We need to be responsive collectively (following the lead of those who do such things best). We need to live life together in such a way that we aren't failing so miserably in these things. A church could do a world of good by putting together prepared meals, dropping them at the house, and keeping the visits short. This is true in a time of pregnancy or pregnancy loss. Simple gestures of compassion, consideration, and minimal talking may be the best start.

As an aside, should someone ever spew such theological rubbish as, "God just needed another little angel," to my wife I may feel it is my pastoral duty to verify they understand how it feels when we're called upon to turn the other cheek.

Issues of death and loss are areas of congregational life that are still very much given over to folk theology and superstition. It is hard to correct them because nobody wants to rain on someone else's good intentions.

[Billy Cox]

After losing someone I cared for dearly, instantly in an accident (was with him) with no "goodbye" time, when I was nearing 21, years later (30's) had a friend whose husband died of cancer ... which is a long, drawn-out agonizing time of saying "goodbye," not nice, either.

For every person who "quietly slips away surrounded by family", there are likely a dozen whose 'departure' is not accompanied by any good-byes and would be a terrible thing to behold; any family members unlucky enough to see it would likely wish they hadn't.

Incidentally, I have long wondered why some people feel compelled to boast about how 'peaceful' such-and-such's passing was.

[John Kennedy]

Listening to the gut-wrenching ways some try to bring comfort to others helps to remind us that you don't need to be Jewish to have chutzpah.

[Rich Schmidt]

Incidentally, I have long wondered why some people feel compelled to boast about how 'peaceful' such-and-such's passing was.

I've never heard it as boasting (maybe just haven't heard quite what you're talking about). I've heard it as something they're saying to comfort themselves.

[Gina Stevenson]

For every person who "quietly slips away surrounded by family", there are likely a dozen whose 'departure' is not accompanied by any good-byes and would be a terrible thing to behold; any family members unlucky enough to see it would likely wish they hadn't.

Well, I tell ya, BIlly ... I can still picture it clearly what he looked like (he had been driving, fell asleep) from my passenger seat ... and then I realized I needed breathing help ....... No, we did not see it happening, as we were being thrown around ourselves upon hitting that tree (that I also saw coming at us), but very soon thereafter.

Listening to the gut-wrenching ways some try to bring comfort to others helps to remind us that you don't need to be Jewish to have chutzpah.

Nearly clicked the "laugh" button on this one, John ... is this too somber of a thread in which to do that?

[Billy Cox]

I've never heard it as boasting (maybe just haven't heard quite what you're talking about). I've heard it as something they're saying to comfort themselves.

I don't begrudge others the opportunity to comfort themselves, I just don't want to hear it. Most of the time when someone dies, the story is simply that they died, which I take to mean that they didn't have a 'Hollywood ending'.

I am thankful that my wife does not have etched in her mind the image of her mother desperately gasping for her final breaths when she died of a lung condition. (I didn't see it either, thankfully)