When I grew up, there were people who would shout during the singing, testimony time or the preaching. There were hankie wavers, isle runners, hand raisers, stompers, criers, etc. Now I rarely hear any shouting.I do hear amens now and then. I live in the Bible Belt. Was it just emotion? Has it changed with the times? Have the shouters all died and gone to heaven? The Nazarene Church was know for shouters. We were even called Holy Rollers. What happened....or does it still happen in your church.
Yeah, we have shouters alright. I got shouted down from the pulpit one time by a drunk disgruntled viet nam veteran. It was completely insane. But to answer your question, I think all the shouters moved down the street to the Assembly of God church. For the most part the Nazarene Church has quieted down.
We're in Vermont. One person quietly says "amen" and the rest of us lip synch and nod our heads.
I probably am the one in our congregation that would be so identified. When the Spirit is moving I cut loose and don't quench my expression of my pleasure at His moving. My preacher dad always said that this is the quietest world we will ever live in as Heaven will be a continual praise and singing worship of our Father, Savior and abiding Holy Spirit so we better get tuned up and Hell will be a constant weeping and wailing.
Not often Vivian, but someone got blessed "out loud" in a service awhile back and her getting blessed blessed the rest of us!Originally Posted by Vivian Cornwell
Peggy, do Vermont residents never express themselves akiud in public situations such as ballgames, concerts, campmeetings, or revivals? Could the lip sync actually be muscle contractions of those already gone to their rewards? Maybe it would be justified to learn signing or to carry a group of signs with inscriptions such as "Hallelujah, "Praise the Lord," "Glory," as well as "Amen." or would this frighten the preacher or song leader or encourage them?
Should we like judges at the Olympics have point cards for each hand so that at the end of the benediction we could give the preacher an 8.6 or a 5.4 to rate the sermon? Just for fun.
Ours is pretty much like Peggy Gray's. Often when that happens in Vermont we eventually hear about it in New Hampshire.
Yes, Vivian, I remember well shouters at Central Ohio Camp Meeting. I think the last time I saw it there I was in a quartet, and the song evangelist told us prior to the service that he didn't intend for the preacher to get to have his part that evening. Naively, I asked what he meant, and he said the service would take off between the second and third verses of a choir song that I still rather appreciate. When nothing happened after the second verse, he had the choir sing the chorus again, and again, and again. Finally, we noticed a little 'ole lady one one side watching a bent over old man on the other side, who was kinda taking his cue from her. She started her wailing hanky waving march, and he began climbing over the backs of the benches toward the altar. When he reached the altar, he began goose-stepping from one side to the other, both hands in the air, hoot, hoot, hooting, across the platform. People started going to the altar, and the evangelist jumped in, trying his best to preach something. By then, the hanky waver had made her rounds back the center right aisle, and then down the left center. The district superintendent started naming some of us to come and pray with people who had "come forward." The choir was wearing out the chorus to that song, and more people started going forward, sorta like they weren't sure what was going on, but in case there was something really happening they didn't want to miss out on it. About that point, the evangelist remembered they hadn't taken the offering yet, so he called for the ushers. He said something about never before seeing an offering taken during an altar call. Seemed like by then there were "shouters" everywhere.
I am confident some people received life-changing help that evening, and the Lord was able to do wonderful things. That was forty one years ago this month, but I've not forgotten: I've not seen anything like it since. The Lord be praised.
The choir song was, naturally, "Heaven Came Down."
Every once in a while we get an evangelist that encourages (goads? shames?) us into making noise: "I don't hear you! What was that? Come on, are you alive out there?" So we all laugh nervously, and then make a concerted effort to be more noisy for the rest of the service(s). It always feels kind of fakey when that happens, though, like the wife saying "you never tell me you love me" and the husband saying "Okay, I love you."
I was brought up to be quiet in church. Old habits, etc. Or a New England thing.
Of course there are people in Vermont that express themselves loudly in public. But they're probably from away.
Dennis I was probably there for that service. It sounds familiar. The hanky waving lady was from the Whitehall Church (my church at that time). I believe the gentleman was the brother of one of our pastors on the district. Another time when the Holy Spirit came and many became involved was when Pat Duncan was the song evangelist but I don't remember the song he sang.
We had a couple shouters in my home church who died when I was young and we had a couple at our campmeeting. This was not a Nazarene Church. It was a change for me when I joined the Nazarene Church, but I believe most of what I have experienced in my life was in the spirit and not put on. The people's lives went along with their actions and testimony.
I used to date a guy who had this odd, explosive shout that was accompanied by his hand being jerked in the air "Yes! Touchdown!" style. You probably remember who I'm talking about, Mom. It was very disconcerting to be sitting in church, holding hands when he would suddenly shout like that. There were many times I nearly jumped out of my seat with shock. Here's my point...his dad shouted in exactly the same manner. I always wondered how someone could be passing notes in church and then a couple minutes later, shouting the glory.
One time a family came to visit our church. We were singing some sort of hymn and at the end of the song she started this siren-sound. This went on, and on, and on, and on...no kidding for at least 10 minutes. The whole church sat there, very uncomfortably, and waited until the siren died down.
To answer your question. No, we don't have shouters in the traditional sense. We do have "dancers", arm wavers, "Yes!"-men/women, swayers, hand raisers, etc.
Opal Estep, and Mr. Irwin. They always started it at campmeeting just like clockwork. Mr. Irwin also used to go up in front of the altar and jump repeatedly until he had crossed the whole tabernacle (not a small feat, especially for an old man) and then turn around and start over! When I was little at our church, Opal would sit on the left side/second pew and always scared me when she would get started. First came out the hanky, and then she would walk up and down the aisles with this little mincing step. I'm sure both Opal and Mr. Irwin were the genuine article, but as a kid, it was always scary/entertaining.
Mark's mom attended a little holiness church (I think it was Pilgrim Holiness) in one of the coal camps of Eastern Kentucky when she was a young girl. She told me a story about this lady getting blessed and throwing her infant child across the room to be caught by another person. I always told her I didn't believe her, but she swore it was true. She also told of a man who would run the aisles a little differently than I've ever seen. She said he would jump up onto the backs of the pews and "walk" all around the church solely on the pew backs.
On thing I do want to add about this topic (and not a reflection on Mom or her initial question), but I always wonder why people tend to assume that the loud worshippers are more spiritual or holy than those who are standing quietly worshipping in their own manner? Our church recently got a new worship pastor and he was talking to us on the praise team. He said he wanted to have a more demonstrative worship, that we on the PT should be raising our hands and worshipping as a model to the congregation. What? My thought was that I worship they way God impresses upon me, not in response to a worship pastor's desires. He later backed up on his statement when people started to question him. Why the assumption?
Back to Mom's question, I DO think the Nazarene church is quieter, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. I just is.
Got some yawners. Even have a few singers - not many. No shouters.
Had a man who occasionally said "amen," but peer pressure is a powerful thing. He just shakes his head rather loudly now.
Sometimes I think my church is full of transplanted New Englanders.
"Fully embracing the Gospel, fully engaging the world"
Vivian,
Pat Duncan was not on the "team" that year. I do remember who the workers were, and I discovered twenty-five years later, they still knew my name, too. !!?? I remain a little annoyed at the antics of the workers, but I have only high regard for those who responded in the congregation. Now, thanks to Cindi, I know their names, too. I wish fewer people would put themselves in a position of judging people who don't respond just like they do - whether loudly, or quietly.
Sometimes people think that a demonstrative response is a reaction to something being said, or sometimes sung. Rather, it is a response to experiencing and recognizing the presence of the Holy Spirit. Some people recognize that presence, and have no such demonstration. Neither is especially wrong, unless that person refuses to respond the way the Lord directs.
The father of my college room-mate used to tell the story of his sitting in a bogged down general church business meeting. He said in the middle of the most boring part, he suddenly found himself fighting the urge to just stand up and shout. He argued that it was a business session, and that there were important people there, many of whom we far more sophistocated than he. He finally controlled himself and remained silent, thinking it didn't make any sense at all. Suddenly the man next to him jumped up and at the top of his voice, said, "GLORY TO GOD!" Immediately people all around the room began to stand and shout. Others wept openly, and fell to their knees, praying. A Holy Spirit visited prayer meeting erupted. My friend's father said, "I'm glad some one else there was more obedient than I. We all nearly missed a powerful blessing."
As far as the campmeeting service I mentioned before - I left the tabernacle before the service ended that night, because I saw another friend storm out, and I sensed I needed to be with him. He was furious, and said to me, "That was all fake, and I'm never going back!" He'd been raised in the church, and in a part of the country where that kind of thing wasn't norm. I still see him several times a year, and except for weddings and funerals, he has never gone back to church. Likely he was looking for some excuse to leave, but that service had a profound impact on him. Unfortunatelly, it was negative.
As for the yelling at football games analogy - last year I went to my first NFL game. New England Patriots fans did in fact yell like crazy. I hope they never behave like that in any church I pastor. It certainly wasn't camp meeting.
We have glower-ers. We have snorers. We have yawners and stare-into-space'ers. We have a couple of singers and even fewer paying-attention'ers. And don't get me started on the nose-pickers. Shouters? Not a one. And I can't say that displeases me.
I, too, was raised to be quiet in church. I had a hard time just learning to laugh when the pastor made a joke (or tried to). If we were start having lots of shouters, we'd have to turn the sound system up and it's already up so loud that the only people other than the unlucky worship team members who will sit in the front are partially deaf.
I also know the names of the two Cindi named but just didn't mention their names. I believe both Opal and Mr. Irwin lived a life very close to the Lord. In fact Opal married a Nazarene evangelist in her later years and he later left the marriage. He said he left because he couldn't get any sleep because of Opal praying all night long. She was a prayer warrior. Our churches need more of those.
Cindi and I visited a Pentecostal church in AZ with my niece once and the preacher told everyone how to praise the Lord - to stand up, raise our hands, etc. Cindi and I did not participate. He also had been told before the service that we were Nazarene and he told in his sermon how he used to be a Nazarene and that it was as dying church now. We told him after the service that our church was not a dying church and he backed down on his comments. This was probably about 29 years ago.
I used to run around the north end of Columbus, and I had no idea what went on at that weird looking place on Morse road.
I see now that I missed all the fun!
We do have a lady that every now and then cries out in praise of Jesus, but we're mostly laid back.
What is wrong with this woman? She's asking about stuff that's nobody's business. 'What do I do?' What do I do, I do here. I should have written it down. 'Qua' something. Quaaa. Quarr. Quab. Quall. Qwer. Quobbity! Quobbity assurance!
Oh Greg, you really have no idea how MUCH fun you missed out on. I tend to be a bit more nostalgic than most people around me are comfortable with, but those truly were the days...not just at Central Ohio Campmeeting, but also in my home church.I used to run around the north end of Columbus, and I had no idea what went on at that weird looking place on Morse road.
I see now that I missed all the fun!
We do have a lady that every now and then cries out in praise of Jesus, but we're mostly laid back.
One of the most educational moments of my time at NTS was at the beginning of my first semester there. That was February, 1987. The evangelism conferance was held in KC then. One of the speakers/evangelists was a popular one from our region of Ohio . . . Paul Pfeiffer. During his message, he got "blessed" and while he didn't start the old time hack I've heard from my grandfather and his brethren, he spoke with a tremendous amount of unction. Others in the crowd caught the blessing and exhibited it in styles of shouting, running, etc. Some NazNetters may have been there and remember this.
I will NEVER forget the disdain and embarassment expressed by NTS faculty and HQ staff the next day over the "antics" of the previous evening. What an eye opener for me.
Vivian, We don't have any shouter in our in our church here. But the Nazarene church I grew up in not only did we have shouter, we had runner and kicker. I don't believe any of it was put on.
Larry
No shouters in any of our Parish churches but when some people are blessed they raise their hands while others quietly shed a tear...... we're pretty tame out here.
Brian, did you mean Don Pfeiffer??
Yes, I did. I knew that "Paul" didn't quite sound right, but couldn't come up w/ any other names. I guess its that 50-ish kind of thing.
Nope. Our last shouter died 20 years ago. Unfortunately, his "walk" was not one I wanted to emulate and the shouting served mainly to sour my view on such demonstrations. I know such things can be genuine and God-inspired, but of all the "shouters" whose paths have crossed mine through the years, only one or two have demonstrated to me a life of holiness. I'm not sure why that is.
Marsha
"If God is love, it is only among people animated by mutual love
that understanding of him can be advanced.
To admit acrimony in theological discussion is in itself more fundamentally heretical
than any erroneous opinions upheld or condemned in the course of discussion."
I guess what bothers me is those who assume that we would all be shouting if we weren't so concerned with what people around us would think, that your roommate's father is typical of Nazarenes -- quenching the Spirit in the name of proper behavior. I can assure you that I have run the aisles and shouted in public every single time the Spirit has prompted me to do so, which is not once ever. My shouting has all been done in settings where it's directed to God alone and there's no danger of misinterpretation. It seems that the One who suggested we go into a closet to pray rather than doing it on the street corners for all to see is surely not too offended if we whoop and holler and dance for joy in that same closet. (Fortunately, my prayer closet is roomy.) When I find blessing in a public setting, I am fully content to do my dancing on the inside.
Marsha
"If God is love, it is only among people animated by mutual love
that understanding of him can be advanced.
To admit acrimony in theological discussion is in itself more fundamentally heretical
than any erroneous opinions upheld or condemned in the course of discussion."
Not anymore. We used to have one lady that would let out a whoop when she got blessed. Her husband died and she married a widower from another, larger church, where she now goes. I've often wondered if she whoops there.
In another church I always felt like the song leader what trying to get us to shout and whatnot when we didn't feel it. I was never comfortable with that.
We had an unusual service this morning. I have gone to this church for 24 years and have only heard one blind retired minister do what I would call shouting and his is a "whoop" when he sings, plays the piano and preaches along with a few words like Glory Hallelujah, etc. This morning our pastor had us sing an old Southern Gospel song before his message on the Second Coming....."I'll Fly Away." The people really got into the singing and there were many amens, hallelujahs, claps, and a couple shouts. It's funny that this happened just after I started this discussion. It was all in a good spirit and the message was good. People responded at the altar after the message. Our churches need revival. I hope ours is on the way.
One assembly Dennis Scott led our zone Pastors in singing, "I'll Fly Away." The reaction was not quite the same.
Reminds me of Wendy Bagwell's story of singing in a snake handling church, when one of the members said "You mean if God commanded you to take up the serpent you wouldn't do it?", to which Wendy replied "Yes ma'am, I certainly would. Be He didn't, and I ain't."I guess what bothers me is those who assume that we would all be shouting if we weren't so concerned with what people around us would think, that your roommate's father is typical of Nazarenes -- quenching the Spirit in the name of proper behavior. I can assure you that I have run the aisles and shouted in public every single time the Spirit has prompted me to do so, which is not once ever. My shouting has all been done in settings where it's directed to God alone and there's no danger of misinterpretation. It seems that the One who suggested we go into a closet to pray rather than doing it on the street corners for all to see is surely not too offended if we whoop and holler and dance for joy in that same closet. (Fortunately, my prayer closet is roomy.
Marsha
I was raised up in shouting churches, and have even shouted some myself. We still have a couple of folks who get a little loud, both locally and in camp meeting. It's pretty rare, though. We have one person who does it at every single district assembly service and its actually pretty distracting to me.
Pastor Matthew Haggard sang a trio with two ladies of the congregation on praising our Lord and by the finale I could not sit still any longer and cut loose and the rest of the congregation stood to their feet at the same time with many praises. For one twenty years younger than me he certainly preaches like an old fashioned Nazarene and our congregation is truly blessed to have such a Godly servant as our pastor.
Ok Brian, here's the funny thing...before I finished reading your post, I started thinking about some memories I had of Don Pfeiffer. The first one I thought of was that he frequently used the word "unction" and I didn't know what it meant! I nearly did a spit-take when you used that term later in your post! Ha! Maybe your memory is better than you give it credit.
That happened frequently when I was a youngster. When certain people who I knew and knew their sincerity started shouting I would get tears, sometimes say amens. There was one saint who shouted and when she shouted it was at an appropriate time. It did not disrupt the preacher but he usually slowed down a little.
Some of the Gaither music/musicians can cause me to be blessed and if alone I probably say things or sing with them as they sing. Of course, I'm an old man and loved the Speers. We knew them and I got good hugs from two of the sisters at Mount Vernon on one occasion.
We have a significant number of Jamaicans in our church and they are a lively (and lovely) group. Verbal expressions, clapping, and hand raising are regular occurances in the worship services. Although the Jamaicans are the most expressive, they are by no means the only ones.
The world is still our parish.
Pastor Kevin Rector will know of whom I am speaking when I mention the wonderful lady who went by the name of "Miss Ellen" at Sun Valley Indian School who when she experienced the moving of the Holy Spirit would take her cane and walk up and down through the rows of chairs and in the aisles and when someone asked why she was doing this she just said, "Well, I can't run them but I wished I could." She was a member of his church in Wisconsin.
No shouters. We have a couple "Amen-ers" but that's about it. Lots of "loud nodding," including myself. :P My friend grew up as the daughter of a Wesleyan pastor and she said they used to call us the "Noisy-renes." Heh. I can't really imagine it now.
mother, musician, teacher
Meghan, I have heard that term used in reference to our denomination often until about the late 70s and it used to be quite an appropriate appelation. Perhaps we heard that it was considered unsophisticated to actually "PRAISE THE LORD."
John,
If and when revival comes to your church, you're gonna have a lot of forgiveness to seek, and even more repenting. First you stand up at district assembly and tell these outrageous lies about me, and now you even lie to all our naznet friends. First, you know you could be killed by a drunk driver on the way home from church tonight - Oh, wait, you live next door to the church. Well, an airplane could crash through the roof of your church before this service ends. And this is not one of those things you can take care of from where you sit: you have to go to the altar. We're gonna sing that last verse one more time, and if no one comes, there'll be no more singing. This could be your last chance.
The teens are going to have pizza immediately following the service.
Cindi,
Wasn't Don with the CCCU?
Last edited by Dennis M. Scott; 08-04-2010 at 05:55 AM. Reason: opportunistic evangelism
I'm not Cindi, only her mother, but yes, Don was with CCCU. He preached and held revivals in a lot of Nazarene churches.
There were, but we got rid of them!!! (-:
Seriously, I've only been in one church that had a "shouter" in my entire life (been a Nazarene from birth) and I found him to be more of a disruption than a blessing. If I honestly believed that it were the "spirit" and not a production I may have felt different but while he was definitely a Godly man and walked the walk as well as talked the talk, the "blessings" always seemed to me to be more of a production number than a true moving of the spirit. I aways wondered if the Pastor changed up the order of service he would run the aisles during the offering if it occurred at 11:22.
And O how the "old folk" would complain about how loud his trumpet was all the way back to Circleville on the church van...
...those were the days... skipping out of service, hopping the fence, playing a round of putt-putt getting back for the closing prayer, and then to the snack shack for the biggest two scoops of heavenly hash ice cream I'd ever seen!
My dad often used the phrase "scotching the preacher on" for "Ameners" but not shouting unless the Amen was with considerable volume.
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